Posted on Jun 5, 2023
SSG(P) Culinary Management Nco
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I was doing field rotation that had open showers and had a thought about Transgender personell and how the be treated by other personell. I talked to a female an she said she upset if transwomen in her shower if they still had there male genitals. I asked a male the same thing and he said he wouldn't care. He said "If they identify as a man I will treat them like a man". How would you personally feel about this.

ADMIN NOTE: Be respectful to other RP members who may be in the transgender community.
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CSM William Everroad
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Every now and then we all have this conversation. I imagine it started when black people were integrated into the military, then women, then homosexuals, then women in combat units and now transgender.

A couple points: 1. all Soldiers are entitled to be treated with dignity and respect. Regardless of whatever excuse we have to dislike certain aspects. They volunteered to serve. We should let them. There has been no evidence of a depreciation of readiness in any integrated units (regardless of the characterization of integration: race, gender, age, etc)

2. Soldiers must accept living and working conditions that are often austere, primitive, and characterized by little or no privacy. We went from open stall bathrooms and showers in all billets to private rooms, but the expectation of privacy is a "nice to have" not a requirement. If female Soldiers are examining the "equipment" of fellow Soldiers, perhaps they should mind their own, do what they need to do and get out of the shower. The same goes for males. A lot of civilians would be uncomfortable showering in an open bay, but we do not change anything for them. Some places even have mixed gender bathrooms with individual stalls and showers.

3. Most integration efforts suffer from ignorance and preconceived notions and bias. Soldiers diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria do not get to change their gender marker until they are medically cleared. Until then, they are treated as the gender marker they enlisted with. The Real Life Experience (RLE) phase begins only during off-duty hours. Most Soldiers are not even aware someone is diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria and some don't even pursue transition because it is not medically necessary. The ones I have met wait to change their gender marker until they PCS as part of their RLE transition to full time.

4. Civilians with a history of gender dysphoria are accessed the same way as anyone else with a medical condition that impact military service. High impacts will always require a waiver. The Army was already providing medically necessary care for other preexisting behavioral health conditions (counseling, medication, etc).

This is a small unit issue that will depend on the professionalism of the Soldiers assigned around them. If everyone is a grown up, there are no problems. If someone does not like it, they can sit down with their 1SG/CDR who will tell them the same thing.

Females in the Army have more to fear from male Soldiers than from female transgender Soldiers. Female Soldiers are more likely to be sexually assaulted by a male Soldier than being injured by the enemy. We have bigger fish to fry than what someone is rocking between their legs in the shower. If they are performing to expectations, then we treat them with dignity and respect and move out.
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
7 d
SGT Katherine Van Niman - If they can't deploy, why have them?
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CSM William Everroad
CSM William Everroad
6 d
Capt Jeff S. - Sure, if by "woke" you mean paying attention as our understanding increases over time.

We all once believed the sun was pulled across the sky by chariots. That idea was challenged and they called it blasphemy. We all once believed the world was flat, some still do, and when challenged, accused scholars of heresy. We didn't wash our hands, doctors that suggested it would save lives were committed to insane asylums. Even the idea that the continents move on the tectonic plates was laughed out of academia. Darwin's work is still contentious despite hundreds of years of confirming research.

Humans often react violently to things they don't understand. Today, people just label it as "woke" and plant their feet refusing to critically think and examine evidence. This is compounded by the 24 hour "news" cycle and Social Media. Millions of people with varying degrees of misunderstanding engaging in the public debate to cultivate black and white answers to the world around us.

I am far from progressive. I just simply adhere to the Army concept that has us treating all Soldiers with dignity and respect. I cannot do that if I do not understand. It is not within my authority to decide what troops are recruited, trained, and shipped to duty station. It is my job to complete their training, coach mentor and develop them into the best Soldier and leader they can be while meeting all military standards and stand ready. I take that job seriously, and objectively have not failed at it. My Soldiers have been well-trained through multiple combat deployments, numerous encounters with the enemy, and every one returned home.

With all due respect, you can keep your insinuations and enjoy your living room while I continue to train Soldiers that will stand guard. Your concern for the readiness of the military is duly noted, we have it in hand, your watch is done.
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LTC Thomas (Tom) Jones
LTC Thomas (Tom) Jones
6 d
Excellent; said with conviction CSM William Everroad.
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LTC Thomas (Tom) Jones
LTC Thomas (Tom) Jones
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Capt Jeff S. - Good counterpoint. Lively "back and forth." Worthy of consideration. Thanks for your time and effort.
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LTC Self Employed
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Edited 8 mo ago
As discussed in our S1 one weekend back in 2018 when I was with the old 1st BDE, Pacific Division 75th Training Command The big problem is that those small group of soldiers Sailors and Airmen who join the military just to get their transgender surgery means that they will be non-mission capable for at least 2 years. We discussed this in our Brigade back in 2018. I foresee that females who complain to their superiors about transgender men will be disciplined and somebody be kicked out of the army when they have a bona fide reason to complain. This will only go away once this regime is voted out of office. People purposely joining the military to have transgender surgeries is not going to help retention. Those military personnel who are stuck in limbo getting their surgeries and not being able to deploy for 2 years will put a real strain on the system not to mention taxpayer dollars because they join the military to change General markers but not to serve our country.
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MSG Raymond Davis
MSG Raymond Davis
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LTC Conway - Very well said and easy to understand your logic.
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LTC Self Employed
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
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LTC (Join to see) - He couldn't help it. He was born that way.
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LTC Self Employed
LTC (Join to see)
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Capt Jeff S. Watch president biden offer free transgender surgery to any person who wants it. This is already the case for young kids of california. Make them a Frankenstein on the government's Expense and later they'll get depressed and commit suicide when they don't like the results.

I saw a story a few years back of an adult And I got all the necessary surgery and was disgusted and flew to Denmark.
To go through legal suicide.

CPT (Join to see) MAJ Montgomery Granger SGT Ruben Lozada CPL Larry Frias Jr CSM Darieus ZaGara Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth Cpl Vic Burk
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COL Randall C.
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Edited 11 mo ago
I've seen comments regarding a transitioning Soldier and thought I'd lay out the Active Duty process (there is a different process for reserve component, IRR, and ING Soldiers). BTW - I'm rendering no opinion in support for or against the process - just laying out what it is.

As I mentioned elsewhere, until the gender marker in DEERS is changed, Soldiers will still be treated as whatever is reflected. Furthermore, the gender marker isn't something that is changed because a Soldier decides that they want it changed and go to the RAPIDS office and implement it. It takes a while for the process to happen.

First the Soldier has to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, the medical provider has to indicate gender transition treatment is medically necessary (note, this does not automatically mean gender transition surgery), and then they develop a treatment plan.

After that, a brigade-level commander has to approve the timing of the transition (again, not necessarily 'surgery', but changing the DEERS identification and how they will be treated) weighing the treatment plan and the the Soldier's individual circumstances, impact to military readiness and the mission, as well as the morale, welfare, good order and discipline of the unit. This will very likely be done in concert with the Soldier's commander regarding personnel impacts, upcoming missions, etc.

Once a time-line is established, and assuming nothing changes it, after the Solder completes medical treatment and the provider notifies the commander that the Soldier has achieved stability in the self-identified gender along with a recommendation of when the change in DEERS should happen.

At that point the Soldier can request that the change actually happen along with all the documentation necessary (medical diagnosis & confirmation from provider, legal documentation, etc). The brigade level command will consult with the Service Central Coordination Cell (SCCC) at the ASA (M&RA) and has 30 days to review the packet to ensure it's complete. Assuming everything is in order, THEN the commander will approve the request, including a date when the PAR to change the gender can occur in IPPS-A.
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MAJ Pilot
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4 mo
SGT Brian Weidler - You don't need to be a doctor to research gender dysphoria. People with that condition almost always suffer from significant depression and are 20 times more likely to commit suicide. Hormone treatments actually make them more emotionally unstable; the vernacular term being "roid rage". If they go through with surgical treatment they discover that their "new bodies" don't work, and then they realize that they can never repair the damage. Any medical professional that encourages these medical experiments is violating the Hippocratic Oath which states "do no harm".
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SGT Air Defense Radar Repairer
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COL Randall C. Confusing them with facts may cause them to suffer a stroke.
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SGT Air Defense Radar Repairer
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SPC (Join to see) - The problem with clots and estrogen arises when the estrogen is taken in pill form. The reason for that is estrogen is taken as a tablet, it is metabolized in your liver, which produces clotting factors. Switch to injections or patches and that problem is removed.
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SGT Air Defense Radar Repairer
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2 mo
SSG Dennis R. - You are correct. It could take as long as a year or more which it did when I left the Military.
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