Posted on Aug 26, 2014
Abandoning religion and the attached fallout...
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I am looking for advice and I want to keep this limited to myself and devoid of as much familial information as I can:
In my youth, naivety, ignorance - while in OSUT, I converted to the Mormon Church. I was devout to the church for a few years, I read everything I could get my hands on, scripture, non-cannon written by the Church's Apostles, and Prophets, etc. I read books on the deeper doctrines of the church and began to become very familiar with everything. In that process, I was developing a sincere doubt that any of this was true. I fooled myself time and time again and continued to perpetuate the cycle of belief. (I won't elaborate on this because it is embarrassing). I continued in this for nearly 10 months while in Iraq, until the fateful day that I had a vehicle accident while on a routine combat patrol.
Our platoon sergeant was just shot at by an insurgent in a bongo truck, which, immediately began to flee. Our patrol immediately began pursuit through open desert. We remained on line, spread approx. 250-300m apart and would begin to close the gap as the enemy approached terrain difficult to traverse. As I began my turn in to close the gap - the open desert floor at that speed is misleading and I couldn't see the 3-4 ft. deep, 4-5 ft. wide ditch we were headed right for at around 40-45 MPH. We crashed into that ditch.
We continued mission and my issues from this accident wouldn't arise until later in the week, the same week I was bound to go on R&R to be married to my fiance, now wife.
The accident knocked me around a lot. Dizziness, pressurized right ear, horrendous migraines, and nerve impulses traveling from my occipital lobe into the top of my scalp. I also had some memory difficulties, and still do on occasion. It also knocked my habits out of whack. I couldn't read my scriptures anymore, there was something abhorrent about doing it - I become completely disconnected with any of the "faith" I had. I couldn't read with faith any longer - I was able to read without being blinded by faith and those plot holes began to jump off the page at me. I began to prove to myself that my doubts were substantiated. Overtime, as I got more education and grew a couple of years, I knew without a shred of doubt that the LDS church was not true and that all religion was in the same boat (my personal opinion)... I began to compare scientific findings to their texts and found that it is one of the religions that was founded upon nothing but lies. At any rate, I held this inside me for many years - it festered within me - to be held to a moral and religious judicial code that I did not believe in, to be subjugated to religious leaders who I did not believe in nor did I believe they had any power - but two things kept it in place. 1) My records being in the church and 2) my wife. Removing the records will eliminate any residual form of control they think they have on me.
Those things continued to fester and multiplied the depression I had in my own life for the last 6-7 years since I left the Army... I knew that in order to be happy I had to find what I believed in and live it. I had to remove myself from the religion that I did not believe in. I had to be true to myself and my nature.
Now to the fallout... I informed my wife a week ago that I did not believe in the LDS church or God at all anymore. I am an atheist, and I have been for a long time - I was in the hiding to for fear of losing the life I knew at the time... She has already expressed doubts that our relationship will work out, whereas a week ago she was sincere in saying we could work it out. I think the real line was drawn when I informed her that I was going to remove my records from the Church - a form of self-excommunication, though not viewed officially as this. When I remove my records all of my covenants, etc. are erased and it is as if I was never in the church at all. This is VERY important to me and I am certain I want to have my records removed. There may be discussion that I should just distance myself from the church but leave my records in - that is not an option for me. I will not leave my name attached to what I know to be false. If you were a member of a team who wrote a combat plan and you were the one who saw the gaping hole - would you want your name on that document? - Same principle.
When a Mormon leaves the church, there is a lot of nonsense that goes on. First, the people will stop all communication with them - somehow if you are a non-believer - you are contagious. Second, it effectively eliminates family relations on her side (my side is mostly atheists). Third, the Church will aggressively attempt to mislead my wife that staying with me may lead to problems with her "eternal progression". Amongst many other things, these are the primary things I have learned of in my studies and observations.
I'm sorry for the whole spiel, but I needed to let the bigger picture be known.
Has anyone out there gone through something similar to this?
If so, what happened?
Have any of you succeeded in an atheist / religious marriage?
Any comments are welcome, barring proselytizing...
-----
This is not a plea for reconverting to religion, please to not proselytize to me in this thread.
I also want it to be known, I do feel bad for my wife that I flipped my views on religion- when we were married I was in a still believing in many ways... My true disbelief came within about 6 months after the accident. I feel bad she had to go through this, but I cannot live a lie any longer - because it led to my depression worsening to critical levels (I am fine now).
In my youth, naivety, ignorance - while in OSUT, I converted to the Mormon Church. I was devout to the church for a few years, I read everything I could get my hands on, scripture, non-cannon written by the Church's Apostles, and Prophets, etc. I read books on the deeper doctrines of the church and began to become very familiar with everything. In that process, I was developing a sincere doubt that any of this was true. I fooled myself time and time again and continued to perpetuate the cycle of belief. (I won't elaborate on this because it is embarrassing). I continued in this for nearly 10 months while in Iraq, until the fateful day that I had a vehicle accident while on a routine combat patrol.
Our platoon sergeant was just shot at by an insurgent in a bongo truck, which, immediately began to flee. Our patrol immediately began pursuit through open desert. We remained on line, spread approx. 250-300m apart and would begin to close the gap as the enemy approached terrain difficult to traverse. As I began my turn in to close the gap - the open desert floor at that speed is misleading and I couldn't see the 3-4 ft. deep, 4-5 ft. wide ditch we were headed right for at around 40-45 MPH. We crashed into that ditch.
We continued mission and my issues from this accident wouldn't arise until later in the week, the same week I was bound to go on R&R to be married to my fiance, now wife.
The accident knocked me around a lot. Dizziness, pressurized right ear, horrendous migraines, and nerve impulses traveling from my occipital lobe into the top of my scalp. I also had some memory difficulties, and still do on occasion. It also knocked my habits out of whack. I couldn't read my scriptures anymore, there was something abhorrent about doing it - I become completely disconnected with any of the "faith" I had. I couldn't read with faith any longer - I was able to read without being blinded by faith and those plot holes began to jump off the page at me. I began to prove to myself that my doubts were substantiated. Overtime, as I got more education and grew a couple of years, I knew without a shred of doubt that the LDS church was not true and that all religion was in the same boat (my personal opinion)... I began to compare scientific findings to their texts and found that it is one of the religions that was founded upon nothing but lies. At any rate, I held this inside me for many years - it festered within me - to be held to a moral and religious judicial code that I did not believe in, to be subjugated to religious leaders who I did not believe in nor did I believe they had any power - but two things kept it in place. 1) My records being in the church and 2) my wife. Removing the records will eliminate any residual form of control they think they have on me.
Those things continued to fester and multiplied the depression I had in my own life for the last 6-7 years since I left the Army... I knew that in order to be happy I had to find what I believed in and live it. I had to remove myself from the religion that I did not believe in. I had to be true to myself and my nature.
Now to the fallout... I informed my wife a week ago that I did not believe in the LDS church or God at all anymore. I am an atheist, and I have been for a long time - I was in the hiding to for fear of losing the life I knew at the time... She has already expressed doubts that our relationship will work out, whereas a week ago she was sincere in saying we could work it out. I think the real line was drawn when I informed her that I was going to remove my records from the Church - a form of self-excommunication, though not viewed officially as this. When I remove my records all of my covenants, etc. are erased and it is as if I was never in the church at all. This is VERY important to me and I am certain I want to have my records removed. There may be discussion that I should just distance myself from the church but leave my records in - that is not an option for me. I will not leave my name attached to what I know to be false. If you were a member of a team who wrote a combat plan and you were the one who saw the gaping hole - would you want your name on that document? - Same principle.
When a Mormon leaves the church, there is a lot of nonsense that goes on. First, the people will stop all communication with them - somehow if you are a non-believer - you are contagious. Second, it effectively eliminates family relations on her side (my side is mostly atheists). Third, the Church will aggressively attempt to mislead my wife that staying with me may lead to problems with her "eternal progression". Amongst many other things, these are the primary things I have learned of in my studies and observations.
I'm sorry for the whole spiel, but I needed to let the bigger picture be known.
Has anyone out there gone through something similar to this?
If so, what happened?
Have any of you succeeded in an atheist / religious marriage?
Any comments are welcome, barring proselytizing...
-----
This is not a plea for reconverting to religion, please to not proselytize to me in this thread.
I also want it to be known, I do feel bad for my wife that I flipped my views on religion- when we were married I was in a still believing in many ways... My true disbelief came within about 6 months after the accident. I feel bad she had to go through this, but I cannot live a lie any longer - because it led to my depression worsening to critical levels (I am fine now).
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
As a fellow nonbeliever, I will give you a few pieces of advice:
First, about your wife...
1.) If you love her and want it to work, TELL HER. Don't beat around the bush; tell her that you are sorry you can't share the beliefs, but you are as committed to her as ever, and will try your best to make the relationship work.
2.) At the same time, tell her that if it won't work, she should be forthright about it. If she isn't willing to work on the relationship, you've done your part by giving her the chance. Remind her that you are fundamentally the same person you were a week earlier when you know she still loved you; she just knows something more about you now.
3.) Do not let her force you to compromise your new stance on religion. Your conscience is not her call, so don't subjugate it. Everything else about you is up for grabs, though.
4.) Also, do not -- I REPEAT, DO NOT -- expect that she will change to meet you where you are on religion. You have your conscience, she has hers, and she has as much rights to free choice in it as you have.
5.) Be prepared to spend a lot of time talking things out, and I do mean A LOT, if you stay together. Be aware, this could go on for a very long time, so don't expect these issues to be sorted out quickly.
Second, on your atheism itself...
6.) Try to never lie about your lack of religious faith. There is no shame in coming to your own conclusions about religion, and be willing to be open about that fact.
7.) Also try to feel comfortable with the idea of NOT always sharing it. Just because someone assumes you're religious doesn't mean you have to correct them, and you also don't need to volunteer that information. You likely have a lot of friends/family/community among the religious, and you don't need to make a show of coming out to all of them.
8.) Think carefully about controversial acts that may pit you against those you care about. It may be that getting struck off the rolls of your religion is the only way you'll feel free, but it's also possible that it could force a division between you and your family before the family has had the time to cope with your new stance, and alienate them in the process.
9.) Remember that although you may not respect the belief, you absolutely can respect the believer, and should endeavor to extend them that personal courtesy as long as they do no wrong to you. Showing people over time that your dispute with their religion is academic, and not personal, can go a long way toward preserving relationships. It also erodes the negative stereotypes about non-belief, and creates operating space for others coming out.
10.) Don't be so quick to label your atheism as a result of an accident. Yes, it's possible that the accident had something to do with it, but more often change is slow but just sort of *clicks* one day. Similarly, you may have been on that path for a while, and the accident provided the catalyst to help solidify the views.
11.) Seek community among others who don't believe, especially those who lost their belief. You will face at least some rejection from people you loved and trusted. Believe me, you will need some people to tell you what they went through, and to listen to you without judgment. I suggest either Secular Safe House (http://secularsafehouse.org/) or the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (http://militaryatheists.org/) as a start.
Lastly, good luck.
First, about your wife...
1.) If you love her and want it to work, TELL HER. Don't beat around the bush; tell her that you are sorry you can't share the beliefs, but you are as committed to her as ever, and will try your best to make the relationship work.
2.) At the same time, tell her that if it won't work, she should be forthright about it. If she isn't willing to work on the relationship, you've done your part by giving her the chance. Remind her that you are fundamentally the same person you were a week earlier when you know she still loved you; she just knows something more about you now.
3.) Do not let her force you to compromise your new stance on religion. Your conscience is not her call, so don't subjugate it. Everything else about you is up for grabs, though.
4.) Also, do not -- I REPEAT, DO NOT -- expect that she will change to meet you where you are on religion. You have your conscience, she has hers, and she has as much rights to free choice in it as you have.
5.) Be prepared to spend a lot of time talking things out, and I do mean A LOT, if you stay together. Be aware, this could go on for a very long time, so don't expect these issues to be sorted out quickly.
Second, on your atheism itself...
6.) Try to never lie about your lack of religious faith. There is no shame in coming to your own conclusions about religion, and be willing to be open about that fact.
7.) Also try to feel comfortable with the idea of NOT always sharing it. Just because someone assumes you're religious doesn't mean you have to correct them, and you also don't need to volunteer that information. You likely have a lot of friends/family/community among the religious, and you don't need to make a show of coming out to all of them.
8.) Think carefully about controversial acts that may pit you against those you care about. It may be that getting struck off the rolls of your religion is the only way you'll feel free, but it's also possible that it could force a division between you and your family before the family has had the time to cope with your new stance, and alienate them in the process.
9.) Remember that although you may not respect the belief, you absolutely can respect the believer, and should endeavor to extend them that personal courtesy as long as they do no wrong to you. Showing people over time that your dispute with their religion is academic, and not personal, can go a long way toward preserving relationships. It also erodes the negative stereotypes about non-belief, and creates operating space for others coming out.
10.) Don't be so quick to label your atheism as a result of an accident. Yes, it's possible that the accident had something to do with it, but more often change is slow but just sort of *clicks* one day. Similarly, you may have been on that path for a while, and the accident provided the catalyst to help solidify the views.
11.) Seek community among others who don't believe, especially those who lost their belief. You will face at least some rejection from people you loved and trusted. Believe me, you will need some people to tell you what they went through, and to listen to you without judgment. I suggest either Secular Safe House (http://secularsafehouse.org/) or the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (http://militaryatheists.org/) as a start.
Lastly, good luck.
Best advice I can give is that religion is one of the most profoundly personal choices you make. A faith is just that, believing in something greater than yourself that you may not be able to see or prove, but know to be true. That knowledge is built through your personal relationship with God (etc). How you choose to worship - or not - is your choice and yours alone.
Likewise, I empathize at how traumatic and gut-wrenching the revelation that your faith was misplaced must have been. Please try to be patient with your wife as she determines how to process this information and how to move forward. It will take a while.
When the dust settles, you are going to have to have a heart to heart on how the children will be raised. If you do not, I promise that this will be a wedge issue in the future.
Good luck SPC Jack Eidson. If it does not offend you, I will pray for your marriage and continued recovery.
Likewise, I empathize at how traumatic and gut-wrenching the revelation that your faith was misplaced must have been. Please try to be patient with your wife as she determines how to process this information and how to move forward. It will take a while.
When the dust settles, you are going to have to have a heart to heart on how the children will be raised. If you do not, I promise that this will be a wedge issue in the future.
Good luck SPC Jack Eidson. If it does not offend you, I will pray for your marriage and continued recovery.
Suspended Profile
Thank you for your kind words, 1SG (Join to see).
I have no reason to be offended by your prayers, that is a mechanism you use according to your personal beliefs and no one is in any position to tell you that it is wrong.
Your words are very kind and I thank you.
I have no reason to be offended by your prayers, that is a mechanism you use according to your personal beliefs and no one is in any position to tell you that it is wrong.
Your words are very kind and I thank you.
Jack, it's been several months since your original post and I've been thinking about your story for a while now. I believe I can help you with a little bit of my faith story and some thoughts on your questions.
My story: I was raised a Protestant Christian. Infant baptism, Presbyterian. I hit high school and college in the 1960s and was influenced by the courter-culture movements of that time. I abandoned Christianity and called myself a secular humanist. When I joined the Air Force my dog tags said, "no rel pref." I went along believing that humans were the highest power on the planet for several years. In the mid-1970s we (my wife and I) became friends with a Jewish family. We were impressed with their faith and religion. We studied with a Reform Jewish Rabbi for a year and were accepted into their faith. Being Jewish demands that you do many things to follow God's laws. Reform Jews interpret those laws (635 in the Old Testament) in light of modern society, so we didn't give up pork, for example. We kept Jewish holidays and put up a "Hanukah bush" at Christmas time. I always felt like I wasn't doing enough to win God's favor and was torn on how to follow His will. In 1986 my youngest daughter asked permission to go to Church with our neighbor. I said okay. After a few weeks, she asked me to go to church with her. It was an epiphany. I realized that Christianity was the faith I had been looking for all along. Most of the family joined the Presbyterian Church. We are very happy with our decision and found that "orthodox" Christianity was the right faith for us.
My Wife's aunt and her whole family are part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS). We have some pretty up close experience with LDS members. Everything you reported in your story is true of the LDS church, including shunning. From my observation the LDS church is outside the limits of orthodox Christianity. They do not believe in the same God that I do; nor do they understand Jesus as I do. Their religion, like almost all other world religions, is a "do" religion. You do things and the God (or Gods) will take pleasure in your life so good things will happen. The LDS church adds sort of a point system into this formula that improves one's lot in eternal life if their faithful do certain things in their earthly life. This "do" religion is why it's very hard to break out of the LDS Church. I thank my God that you broke free.
Sermon: Orthodox Christians believe that the work of salvation is done. Christ's death on the cross saved all who believe in Him making them right with God. Unlike all other religions I know of, Christians do "good" in grateful reaction to what's been done for them.
Your questions:
Has anyone out there gone through something similar to this? Yes, I have. You can see from my story of faith I went from Christianity, to humanism, to Judaism, and back to Christianity.
If so, what happened? I wandered around lost for several years and found God through some Jewish friends. But finding God wasn't all there was to it. After about 10 more years I found Jesus Christ--the messiah the Jews are waiting for.
Have any of you succeeded in an atheist / religious marriage? Don't have this experience. You are unequally yoked so many challenges are ahead--picture a donkey and an ox trying to pull a plow together. I hope you and your wife are coming to terms with the situation. Love her, lead her, respect her, listen to her and reply with kindness.
Other comments: I'm not surprised you think you are an atheist. You came out of a do, do, do type of religion. You reached the point of not being able to do any more. Give it some time and keep an open mind. Orthodox Christianity is very different from LDS "Christianity." After a while, talk with people you know who are Christians. Hear what they have to say about being a Christian--being part of a religion based on "done." You may find it's something you need. You may find that God led you out of the LDS church so you could lead your wife out and save your family.
I'll pray for you both.
My story: I was raised a Protestant Christian. Infant baptism, Presbyterian. I hit high school and college in the 1960s and was influenced by the courter-culture movements of that time. I abandoned Christianity and called myself a secular humanist. When I joined the Air Force my dog tags said, "no rel pref." I went along believing that humans were the highest power on the planet for several years. In the mid-1970s we (my wife and I) became friends with a Jewish family. We were impressed with their faith and religion. We studied with a Reform Jewish Rabbi for a year and were accepted into their faith. Being Jewish demands that you do many things to follow God's laws. Reform Jews interpret those laws (635 in the Old Testament) in light of modern society, so we didn't give up pork, for example. We kept Jewish holidays and put up a "Hanukah bush" at Christmas time. I always felt like I wasn't doing enough to win God's favor and was torn on how to follow His will. In 1986 my youngest daughter asked permission to go to Church with our neighbor. I said okay. After a few weeks, she asked me to go to church with her. It was an epiphany. I realized that Christianity was the faith I had been looking for all along. Most of the family joined the Presbyterian Church. We are very happy with our decision and found that "orthodox" Christianity was the right faith for us.
My Wife's aunt and her whole family are part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS). We have some pretty up close experience with LDS members. Everything you reported in your story is true of the LDS church, including shunning. From my observation the LDS church is outside the limits of orthodox Christianity. They do not believe in the same God that I do; nor do they understand Jesus as I do. Their religion, like almost all other world religions, is a "do" religion. You do things and the God (or Gods) will take pleasure in your life so good things will happen. The LDS church adds sort of a point system into this formula that improves one's lot in eternal life if their faithful do certain things in their earthly life. This "do" religion is why it's very hard to break out of the LDS Church. I thank my God that you broke free.
Sermon: Orthodox Christians believe that the work of salvation is done. Christ's death on the cross saved all who believe in Him making them right with God. Unlike all other religions I know of, Christians do "good" in grateful reaction to what's been done for them.
Your questions:
Has anyone out there gone through something similar to this? Yes, I have. You can see from my story of faith I went from Christianity, to humanism, to Judaism, and back to Christianity.
If so, what happened? I wandered around lost for several years and found God through some Jewish friends. But finding God wasn't all there was to it. After about 10 more years I found Jesus Christ--the messiah the Jews are waiting for.
Have any of you succeeded in an atheist / religious marriage? Don't have this experience. You are unequally yoked so many challenges are ahead--picture a donkey and an ox trying to pull a plow together. I hope you and your wife are coming to terms with the situation. Love her, lead her, respect her, listen to her and reply with kindness.
Other comments: I'm not surprised you think you are an atheist. You came out of a do, do, do type of religion. You reached the point of not being able to do any more. Give it some time and keep an open mind. Orthodox Christianity is very different from LDS "Christianity." After a while, talk with people you know who are Christians. Hear what they have to say about being a Christian--being part of a religion based on "done." You may find it's something you need. You may find that God led you out of the LDS church so you could lead your wife out and save your family.
I'll pray for you both.
SSG William Jones
Lt Col Jim Coe
SPC Jack Eidson
Although this post is 10 years old, I want to acknowledge it, just the same. LTC Coe's last paragraph is SPOT-ON. I can relate to it, although I was never LDS. My dear wife of 42+ years is a "cradle-born" Mormon. I am a Christian first and my persuasion of faith is as a Southern Baptist. I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before you step out into eternity. I write this on 14 February, 2025.
SPC Jack Eidson
Although this post is 10 years old, I want to acknowledge it, just the same. LTC Coe's last paragraph is SPOT-ON. I can relate to it, although I was never LDS. My dear wife of 42+ years is a "cradle-born" Mormon. I am a Christian first and my persuasion of faith is as a Southern Baptist. I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before you step out into eternity. I write this on 14 February, 2025.
SFC Jo Ann Klawitter
Jack can you keep talking to Jim because I can’t help him and I think you can
First, NO ONE can tell you to do anything you don't want to do. Yes, it's obvious and yes, you probably know it, but you need to feel it.
Second, here are some things you and your wife might consider:
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
You don't have to believe them, but she should, if she really is a believer.
Whether you remain as you are or change again is of no concern to me. But the usual vow is, "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part." Death, not crisis of faith.
My advice is to talk with your wife. Don't reject what she says about religion and she shouldn't reject what you say. But anything that is sufficiently traumatic to cause, "depression worsening to critical levels", needs to be talked about. It isn't going to be solved by changing your religion and bottling it up inside.
Second, here are some things you and your wife might consider:
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
You don't have to believe them, but she should, if she really is a believer.
Whether you remain as you are or change again is of no concern to me. But the usual vow is, "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part." Death, not crisis of faith.
My advice is to talk with your wife. Don't reject what she says about religion and she shouldn't reject what you say. But anything that is sufficiently traumatic to cause, "depression worsening to critical levels", needs to be talked about. It isn't going to be solved by changing your religion and bottling it up inside.
SPC Jack Eidson,
On the level, the path you find yourself on is a deep foundational level one that, as you know by now, will be developing as the past you "knew" unravels to the present knowledge you have.
As has been said by others, I hope you seek out and find assistance for the trauma you took in Iraq, that can do so much damage to you as you also know from your perspective.
The church-wife-you portion will be the part that tests her faith and your own will/perseverance. At your core being you no longer see her religion as valid, how would you expect that to affect your view of her?
I wish you the best in your journey forward, may you find the peace and strength to continue your relationship with her and raise your family with the most loving care that you can and by so doing prove that it does not matter that you are no-longer LDS.
On the level, the path you find yourself on is a deep foundational level one that, as you know by now, will be developing as the past you "knew" unravels to the present knowledge you have.
As has been said by others, I hope you seek out and find assistance for the trauma you took in Iraq, that can do so much damage to you as you also know from your perspective.
The church-wife-you portion will be the part that tests her faith and your own will/perseverance. At your core being you no longer see her religion as valid, how would you expect that to affect your view of her?
I wish you the best in your journey forward, may you find the peace and strength to continue your relationship with her and raise your family with the most loving care that you can and by so doing prove that it does not matter that you are no-longer LDS.
SPC Jack Eidson, I know that your posting is two months old. Hope everything worked out. If possible, please update.
Suspended Profile
We're working through it on a day-by-day basis.
We've had some bumpy patches, but for the most part things are going well. Minus the fact that my 6 and 3 year old are being spoon fed beliefs that they themselves cannot understand beyond repeating what others say. I'm working on that though. To teach my children to think for themselves, will be one of my most challenging feats in life - especially with how the Church force feeds them dogma that is illogical and irrational and emotionally dysfunctional.
Thanks for the checkup Erin! =D
We've had some bumpy patches, but for the most part things are going well. Minus the fact that my 6 and 3 year old are being spoon fed beliefs that they themselves cannot understand beyond repeating what others say. I'm working on that though. To teach my children to think for themselves, will be one of my most challenging feats in life - especially with how the Church force feeds them dogma that is illogical and irrational and emotionally dysfunctional.
Thanks for the checkup Erin! =D
Suspended Profile
I might have an online support group that could help you. Please contact me if interested.
SSG Tim Everett
I was just about to post and ask SPC Jack Eidson for an update when I saw your post, SGT (Join to see)!
1) sounds like you may have TBI. Get it checked out.
2) traumatic experiences (like being in a war) can cause one to question beliefs.
3) how much do you love your wife? What are you willing to do to make your marriage work? Are you willing to fake it to the LDS church?
2) traumatic experiences (like being in a war) can cause one to question beliefs.
3) how much do you love your wife? What are you willing to do to make your marriage work? Are you willing to fake it to the LDS church?
Suspended Profile
Sir,
1) I have been diagnosed with TBI and Occipital Neuralgia.
2) I fully believe this is the cause of my fall away from religion.
3) I love her immensely and I want our relationship to work out. I have already promised to respect her beliefs and never criticize them nor her for believing in them. I also promised to always be respectful of it in front of our children, so long as she be respectful of my beliefs. I told her our children could be raised in her church, provided I can instruct them on other religions and the absence of religion. We agreed to all those things. Yet, she has shown serious doubts in it working out in the week since I discussed this...
I am not willing to fake it in the Church. Too often, my personal beliefs conflicted and led me to the Bishop's office basically my wife forced me to confess to things I didn't want to... I do not view them as authority figures over me. It lead to my depression worsening - I tried to fake it, it did not bode well.
1) I have been diagnosed with TBI and Occipital Neuralgia.
2) I fully believe this is the cause of my fall away from religion.
3) I love her immensely and I want our relationship to work out. I have already promised to respect her beliefs and never criticize them nor her for believing in them. I also promised to always be respectful of it in front of our children, so long as she be respectful of my beliefs. I told her our children could be raised in her church, provided I can instruct them on other religions and the absence of religion. We agreed to all those things. Yet, she has shown serious doubts in it working out in the week since I discussed this...
I am not willing to fake it in the Church. Too often, my personal beliefs conflicted and led me to the Bishop's office basically my wife forced me to confess to things I didn't want to... I do not view them as authority figures over me. It lead to my depression worsening - I tried to fake it, it did not bode well.
"I knew that in order to be happy I had to find what I believed in and live it."
Welcome to the journey. I went through something similar many years ago... the realization that religion is more often about "control" than it is about faith and salvation. Eventually I came to terms with my own faith in God, and with eyes open, it's very difficult to "un-see" control and hypocrisy. So while my faith is solid, my tolerance for religions is hair trigger.
That said... You made a huge mistake, and it may cost you your marriage.
You didn't communicate... you took the path of self discovery alone in a vacuum, and then eventually sprung it on her, asking her to abandon her faith and family. To use your analogy, you wrote the perfect combat plan, and then tried to execute it without sharing it with your soldiers.
It's not all that dissimilar to having a completely different wife and kids in another city.
I'm the last person that will try and proselytize you... I for one think you've broken free of the herd of sheep and are on your way to being a lion... but you may consider retreat and regrouping... assuming you cherish your relationship and want to preserve it, remember it took you 7 (or more) years to come to this point... you can't expect her to come to the same conclusion overnight.
Welcome to the journey. I went through something similar many years ago... the realization that religion is more often about "control" than it is about faith and salvation. Eventually I came to terms with my own faith in God, and with eyes open, it's very difficult to "un-see" control and hypocrisy. So while my faith is solid, my tolerance for religions is hair trigger.
That said... You made a huge mistake, and it may cost you your marriage.
You didn't communicate... you took the path of self discovery alone in a vacuum, and then eventually sprung it on her, asking her to abandon her faith and family. To use your analogy, you wrote the perfect combat plan, and then tried to execute it without sharing it with your soldiers.
It's not all that dissimilar to having a completely different wife and kids in another city.
I'm the last person that will try and proselytize you... I for one think you've broken free of the herd of sheep and are on your way to being a lion... but you may consider retreat and regrouping... assuming you cherish your relationship and want to preserve it, remember it took you 7 (or more) years to come to this point... you can't expect her to come to the same conclusion overnight.
SPC Jack Eidson Religion must be important to your wife. I have some Mormon friends (I do not adhere to their belief system) and one couple was very much in love but the man refused to marry the woman in the temple, so they broke up. It is the teachings that are particular to the Mormon belief system that are ingrained in her that are not any part of the teachings of actual Scripture. In the interest of adhering to your request, I was wondering if you would add me as a friend so that we could continue this discussion via email. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Respectfully,
Steve
Respectfully,
Steve
We have a close friend that divorces her abusive LDS husband, and the act of divorce excommunicated her from the church. It was a long term marriage, his friends became her friends and when she walked away, it was with the clothes on her back. She literally lost her past life. I did my best as a medical professional and encourages her to seek counseling, date non-LDS men And make new friends. She is a great person and has pulled out strongly and is still doing well Your migraine and neck pain and mTBI are clearly evident. Get a disability rating, the VA will now pay for chiropractic, it is called a VAPC3 program. Ask your VA PCP for a chiropractic referral....insist on it. If you do not, you'll never be the same. Trust me....if you lived in Oregon, I'd examine you and recommend care . Taking care of yourself is the most important thing now . Btw, my oldest brother and all his kids are LDS. Sorry and I am glad you are on the road to self-enlightenment. PM with any questions or concerns.
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Thank you, SSG(P) (Join to see) for both the information and the kind words.
I will look into VAPC3, though I've never tried a chiropractor before.
I will look into VAPC3, though I've never tried a chiropractor before.
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I never thought that I also have a right to be given a truthful answer as to whether or not she wants to stay with me. I told her I wanted to work it out - I told her I wanted a life with her and I meant it. I will work on these things... thank you again, sir.
It began with the typical rebounding of who is to "blame" for this. I laid a very emotional and passionate position of where I stand and what I want. She finally realized that I truly do want this to work out.
Her demeanor has changed, but other than that - I haven't had any reassurances that she will stay with me. I know for at least now, she intends on trying to make it work. She said that my behavior in the past few days was indicating that it wouldn't work out but my behavior hasn't changed at all... I was in a depressive episode and I was having TBI complications causing problems - I explained to her -thoroughly- that my behavior was directly related to my conditions and not as a result of our conversation. I also informed her that these things will continue until my treatments continue and some of them may never go away. (TBI is a terrible affliction). She finally saw me in my rawest of moments and that is when she apologized for her rigid stance. I think it dawned on her that just because I didn't believe in her church any longer didn't mean I was no longer the man she married and loved.
I am hopeful but cautious. I am prepared for the course to shift either way. The true test of this is when her religious leaders get a hold of her and start the talks of the significance of how this will affect her in her "eternal progression". That will be the real indicator - is whether or not she loves me above and beyond their aggressive pushes to get her away from me and into the arms of a "worthy Mormon man".
I sincerely appreciate your words and your follow-up, Maj. Jean.