Posted on Aug 26, 2014
Abandoning religion and the attached fallout...
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I am looking for advice and I want to keep this limited to myself and devoid of as much familial information as I can:
In my youth, naivety, ignorance - while in OSUT, I converted to the Mormon Church. I was devout to the church for a few years, I read everything I could get my hands on, scripture, non-cannon written by the Church's Apostles, and Prophets, etc. I read books on the deeper doctrines of the church and began to become very familiar with everything. In that process, I was developing a sincere doubt that any of this was true. I fooled myself time and time again and continued to perpetuate the cycle of belief. (I won't elaborate on this because it is embarrassing). I continued in this for nearly 10 months while in Iraq, until the fateful day that I had a vehicle accident while on a routine combat patrol.
Our platoon sergeant was just shot at by an insurgent in a bongo truck, which, immediately began to flee. Our patrol immediately began pursuit through open desert. We remained on line, spread approx. 250-300m apart and would begin to close the gap as the enemy approached terrain difficult to traverse. As I began my turn in to close the gap - the open desert floor at that speed is misleading and I couldn't see the 3-4 ft. deep, 4-5 ft. wide ditch we were headed right for at around 40-45 MPH. We crashed into that ditch.
We continued mission and my issues from this accident wouldn't arise until later in the week, the same week I was bound to go on R&R to be married to my fiance, now wife.
The accident knocked me around a lot. Dizziness, pressurized right ear, horrendous migraines, and nerve impulses traveling from my occipital lobe into the top of my scalp. I also had some memory difficulties, and still do on occasion. It also knocked my habits out of whack. I couldn't read my scriptures anymore, there was something abhorrent about doing it - I become completely disconnected with any of the "faith" I had. I couldn't read with faith any longer - I was able to read without being blinded by faith and those plot holes began to jump off the page at me. I began to prove to myself that my doubts were substantiated. Overtime, as I got more education and grew a couple of years, I knew without a shred of doubt that the LDS church was not true and that all religion was in the same boat (my personal opinion)... I began to compare scientific findings to their texts and found that it is one of the religions that was founded upon nothing but lies. At any rate, I held this inside me for many years - it festered within me - to be held to a moral and religious judicial code that I did not believe in, to be subjugated to religious leaders who I did not believe in nor did I believe they had any power - but two things kept it in place. 1) My records being in the church and 2) my wife. Removing the records will eliminate any residual form of control they think they have on me.
Those things continued to fester and multiplied the depression I had in my own life for the last 6-7 years since I left the Army... I knew that in order to be happy I had to find what I believed in and live it. I had to remove myself from the religion that I did not believe in. I had to be true to myself and my nature.
Now to the fallout... I informed my wife a week ago that I did not believe in the LDS church or God at all anymore. I am an atheist, and I have been for a long time - I was in the hiding to for fear of losing the life I knew at the time... She has already expressed doubts that our relationship will work out, whereas a week ago she was sincere in saying we could work it out. I think the real line was drawn when I informed her that I was going to remove my records from the Church - a form of self-excommunication, though not viewed officially as this. When I remove my records all of my covenants, etc. are erased and it is as if I was never in the church at all. This is VERY important to me and I am certain I want to have my records removed. There may be discussion that I should just distance myself from the church but leave my records in - that is not an option for me. I will not leave my name attached to what I know to be false. If you were a member of a team who wrote a combat plan and you were the one who saw the gaping hole - would you want your name on that document? - Same principle.
When a Mormon leaves the church, there is a lot of nonsense that goes on. First, the people will stop all communication with them - somehow if you are a non-believer - you are contagious. Second, it effectively eliminates family relations on her side (my side is mostly atheists). Third, the Church will aggressively attempt to mislead my wife that staying with me may lead to problems with her "eternal progression". Amongst many other things, these are the primary things I have learned of in my studies and observations.
I'm sorry for the whole spiel, but I needed to let the bigger picture be known.
Has anyone out there gone through something similar to this?
If so, what happened?
Have any of you succeeded in an atheist / religious marriage?
Any comments are welcome, barring proselytizing...
-----
This is not a plea for reconverting to religion, please to not proselytize to me in this thread.
I also want it to be known, I do feel bad for my wife that I flipped my views on religion- when we were married I was in a still believing in many ways... My true disbelief came within about 6 months after the accident. I feel bad she had to go through this, but I cannot live a lie any longer - because it led to my depression worsening to critical levels (I am fine now).
In my youth, naivety, ignorance - while in OSUT, I converted to the Mormon Church. I was devout to the church for a few years, I read everything I could get my hands on, scripture, non-cannon written by the Church's Apostles, and Prophets, etc. I read books on the deeper doctrines of the church and began to become very familiar with everything. In that process, I was developing a sincere doubt that any of this was true. I fooled myself time and time again and continued to perpetuate the cycle of belief. (I won't elaborate on this because it is embarrassing). I continued in this for nearly 10 months while in Iraq, until the fateful day that I had a vehicle accident while on a routine combat patrol.
Our platoon sergeant was just shot at by an insurgent in a bongo truck, which, immediately began to flee. Our patrol immediately began pursuit through open desert. We remained on line, spread approx. 250-300m apart and would begin to close the gap as the enemy approached terrain difficult to traverse. As I began my turn in to close the gap - the open desert floor at that speed is misleading and I couldn't see the 3-4 ft. deep, 4-5 ft. wide ditch we were headed right for at around 40-45 MPH. We crashed into that ditch.
We continued mission and my issues from this accident wouldn't arise until later in the week, the same week I was bound to go on R&R to be married to my fiance, now wife.
The accident knocked me around a lot. Dizziness, pressurized right ear, horrendous migraines, and nerve impulses traveling from my occipital lobe into the top of my scalp. I also had some memory difficulties, and still do on occasion. It also knocked my habits out of whack. I couldn't read my scriptures anymore, there was something abhorrent about doing it - I become completely disconnected with any of the "faith" I had. I couldn't read with faith any longer - I was able to read without being blinded by faith and those plot holes began to jump off the page at me. I began to prove to myself that my doubts were substantiated. Overtime, as I got more education and grew a couple of years, I knew without a shred of doubt that the LDS church was not true and that all religion was in the same boat (my personal opinion)... I began to compare scientific findings to their texts and found that it is one of the religions that was founded upon nothing but lies. At any rate, I held this inside me for many years - it festered within me - to be held to a moral and religious judicial code that I did not believe in, to be subjugated to religious leaders who I did not believe in nor did I believe they had any power - but two things kept it in place. 1) My records being in the church and 2) my wife. Removing the records will eliminate any residual form of control they think they have on me.
Those things continued to fester and multiplied the depression I had in my own life for the last 6-7 years since I left the Army... I knew that in order to be happy I had to find what I believed in and live it. I had to remove myself from the religion that I did not believe in. I had to be true to myself and my nature.
Now to the fallout... I informed my wife a week ago that I did not believe in the LDS church or God at all anymore. I am an atheist, and I have been for a long time - I was in the hiding to for fear of losing the life I knew at the time... She has already expressed doubts that our relationship will work out, whereas a week ago she was sincere in saying we could work it out. I think the real line was drawn when I informed her that I was going to remove my records from the Church - a form of self-excommunication, though not viewed officially as this. When I remove my records all of my covenants, etc. are erased and it is as if I was never in the church at all. This is VERY important to me and I am certain I want to have my records removed. There may be discussion that I should just distance myself from the church but leave my records in - that is not an option for me. I will not leave my name attached to what I know to be false. If you were a member of a team who wrote a combat plan and you were the one who saw the gaping hole - would you want your name on that document? - Same principle.
When a Mormon leaves the church, there is a lot of nonsense that goes on. First, the people will stop all communication with them - somehow if you are a non-believer - you are contagious. Second, it effectively eliminates family relations on her side (my side is mostly atheists). Third, the Church will aggressively attempt to mislead my wife that staying with me may lead to problems with her "eternal progression". Amongst many other things, these are the primary things I have learned of in my studies and observations.
I'm sorry for the whole spiel, but I needed to let the bigger picture be known.
Has anyone out there gone through something similar to this?
If so, what happened?
Have any of you succeeded in an atheist / religious marriage?
Any comments are welcome, barring proselytizing...
-----
This is not a plea for reconverting to religion, please to not proselytize to me in this thread.
I also want it to be known, I do feel bad for my wife that I flipped my views on religion- when we were married I was in a still believing in many ways... My true disbelief came within about 6 months after the accident. I feel bad she had to go through this, but I cannot live a lie any longer - because it led to my depression worsening to critical levels (I am fine now).
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
Keep reaching out to Rally point there are a lot of religious people that can help you
SPC Eidson-Some people may get rankled over using RP in this way, but what you said hit home in more ways than one, and since I'm not face to face, I'll do the best I can from where I now sit. For me, faith was very personal thing. Sure, I was raised in a Christian home, attended a religious school for some years, and had been in-and-out of various denominations all my life.
None of that truly settled the question in my mind.
As an adult, with some life behind me, I started looking for the "truth". I won't say I ever "lost" faith, but I wanted to certain it was something I could defend...believe in...and hold on to. That journey took me down some deep rabbit holes to be certain.
I read the books, did the research, listened...learned. Eventually, I came to an astounding conclusion; None of the people defending their point of view ever really answered a question-they just kept shouting answers. That led me to ask three basic questions:
1. Is it more probable that there is something...or nothing?
2. If there's "something", does anything currently define it?
3. Are there consequences for arriving at the wrong answers to (1) and (2)?
Despite all of the "evidence" people provide on both sides, there's no way to concretely "prove" or "disprove" the existence of a higher power. Call it what you will, but if it "might" exist...its worth recognizing. Looking at the world's plethora of religions...it is still possible to find consistent themes; these can be traced back long before the many denominations, sects and organizations fighting for supremacy today. However, at some point, there's a "wall" because the first conscious human either didn't record their experiences...we've yet to find them...or something of that "original" notion came down through to later times. As virtually all of these notions speak to "Good" and "Evil"...and an afterlife, the notion commands serious thought.
For me, the internal discussion came to an end the first time I truly faced death; My instinctive reaction wasn't fear...it was regret. Regret that I didn't live a better life...regret that I hadn't given more to others...regret that I had looked inwardly more than outwardly. I wanted time to say, "I'm sorry"....I hoped no one else would die with me...I wanted my family to know I loved them. There's only been one path that ever showed me how to use that second chance...only one that answered all three of my questions and led to real confidence, peace and acceptance of my own mortality, and that of those around me.
Once I realized that, I approached "denomination" in stride.
You can find something "false" in any house of worship because mankind has a nasty habit of perverting the power of the unknown for their own purposes. You'll find people whose only litmus test is what the person in the pulpit speaks...worse yet, some who will agree without even hearing merely because of a "label" such as Baptist, LDS, Catholic.
The Pope is just a man...
The Pastor may be a pedophile...
The Rabbi may have stopped talking to God...
...The real "temple" is in your heart where the truth is felt, rather than heard. No one can define that truth for you.
When I felt the truth, it tied together many loose ends in my life, and opened up a world to me that convinced me that there is a power that cared enough to give life...and cares enough to stay involved. If that power is in fact God, then He must have created love...and I believe that means He defends it.
Perhaps that love is enough to inspire someone who hasn't felt compelled to ask questions, to stay beside someone traveling on that journey...maybe the love between you and your wife will be that strong; I truly hope it will prove to be my friend. Though he and I may have different conclusions regarding faith, MAJ RJ's advice holds true in so many ways.
None of that truly settled the question in my mind.
As an adult, with some life behind me, I started looking for the "truth". I won't say I ever "lost" faith, but I wanted to certain it was something I could defend...believe in...and hold on to. That journey took me down some deep rabbit holes to be certain.
I read the books, did the research, listened...learned. Eventually, I came to an astounding conclusion; None of the people defending their point of view ever really answered a question-they just kept shouting answers. That led me to ask three basic questions:
1. Is it more probable that there is something...or nothing?
2. If there's "something", does anything currently define it?
3. Are there consequences for arriving at the wrong answers to (1) and (2)?
Despite all of the "evidence" people provide on both sides, there's no way to concretely "prove" or "disprove" the existence of a higher power. Call it what you will, but if it "might" exist...its worth recognizing. Looking at the world's plethora of religions...it is still possible to find consistent themes; these can be traced back long before the many denominations, sects and organizations fighting for supremacy today. However, at some point, there's a "wall" because the first conscious human either didn't record their experiences...we've yet to find them...or something of that "original" notion came down through to later times. As virtually all of these notions speak to "Good" and "Evil"...and an afterlife, the notion commands serious thought.
For me, the internal discussion came to an end the first time I truly faced death; My instinctive reaction wasn't fear...it was regret. Regret that I didn't live a better life...regret that I hadn't given more to others...regret that I had looked inwardly more than outwardly. I wanted time to say, "I'm sorry"....I hoped no one else would die with me...I wanted my family to know I loved them. There's only been one path that ever showed me how to use that second chance...only one that answered all three of my questions and led to real confidence, peace and acceptance of my own mortality, and that of those around me.
Once I realized that, I approached "denomination" in stride.
You can find something "false" in any house of worship because mankind has a nasty habit of perverting the power of the unknown for their own purposes. You'll find people whose only litmus test is what the person in the pulpit speaks...worse yet, some who will agree without even hearing merely because of a "label" such as Baptist, LDS, Catholic.
The Pope is just a man...
The Pastor may be a pedophile...
The Rabbi may have stopped talking to God...
...The real "temple" is in your heart where the truth is felt, rather than heard. No one can define that truth for you.
When I felt the truth, it tied together many loose ends in my life, and opened up a world to me that convinced me that there is a power that cared enough to give life...and cares enough to stay involved. If that power is in fact God, then He must have created love...and I believe that means He defends it.
Perhaps that love is enough to inspire someone who hasn't felt compelled to ask questions, to stay beside someone traveling on that journey...maybe the love between you and your wife will be that strong; I truly hope it will prove to be my friend. Though he and I may have different conclusions regarding faith, MAJ RJ's advice holds true in so many ways.
When I came out with my Atheism to my family, I felt relief, I was already on my own. Some members of my family were mad. They reacted by saying I was going through a phase, that I was being rebellious, and they used Pascal's Wager as an argument for why I should believe. My being out has helped my sister, and other friends, or military coworkers have someone to talk to and confide in.
For your wife, it sounds like you've done all the right things, continue to be there for her, and assure it that it doesn't change your love for her.
For your wife, it sounds like you've done all the right things, continue to be there for her, and assure it that it doesn't change your love for her.
First of all, I want to commend you for being brave enough to even post this in the first place. Religion is a touchy subject anywhere..but I've found that those who have faith in a higher power in the military tend to be a tad more passionate about it. I read your reply to Erin's checkup and as to your kids... when they get older, they'll develop their own beliefs. Just like you did. For me, personally.. I wouldn't call myself a non-believer but exactly what I believe isn't going to be found in any book. I'm a little spacey that way. This might be a bit lengthy, so I apologize in advance. ...I lost faith a very long time ago when the church I went to told me that their God was accepting of everyone but it was CONDITIONAL. As long as you did A, B, and C and weren't.. [fill in the blank].. it would be alright. We won't go further into THAT. But then, as you definitely understand, deployment disillusioned me even further. I can't even imagine what being a Mormon was like because my mother was relatively lax on religion.. but the idea of deployment opening your eyes.. I sorta get it. So...you know.. like four years went by and I got into some pretty serious trouble.. I mean.. if there was a bad choice to be made (legal included) I did it.. ended up at the VA in Michigan in rehabilitation and PTSD treatment and if you know anything about AA and NA... you'll know that it tries to stay away from religion.. but there is no avoiding it. Which really would piss me off because I didn't understand how THAT was going to help me with my issues. Then I met my boyfriend who was basically raised Catholic.. after which he joined the Marines. And went through the same thing you're going through. His views flipped. And we got to talking and realized that it wasn't so much that we didn't HAVE faith but just that our faith wasn't necessarily in some almighty higher power. His faith was in Philosophy and in the fact that if he worked hard that he would get satisfaction out of that. My realization was that I had faith in my son, and in my own capacity to continue learning. For a while I was just totally lost. I didn't know anything I was good at, except being in the Military. Now, I'm in school again after 7 years. I know that was a huge story just to say that religious faith is not the only kind of faith. Maybe it'll be rebuilding with your wife, for you. I don't know. Don't worry about your kids. They're smart. I hope this helps.
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Jessica,
I have been very lost in my years following leaving the military... I spent most of my time drowning in video games and any other form of potent distraction that could get my mind off of my problems and carry me through my emotional regulation problems. If I heavily distracted myself, I suppose I thought that my problems would work themselves out over time. Not surprisingly, I failed... I've been in treatment and things are getting better but still very difficult.
I certainly understand what you mean by having faith in things other than religion. I still harbor faith in humanity, a lot of it! I question it from time to time, but by and large, the minority that disturbs me is not representative of the entirety of humanity. I also am an avid reader and ponderer of philosophy, my favorite is Stoic philosophy.
Thanks for your response and your kind words.
I have been very lost in my years following leaving the military... I spent most of my time drowning in video games and any other form of potent distraction that could get my mind off of my problems and carry me through my emotional regulation problems. If I heavily distracted myself, I suppose I thought that my problems would work themselves out over time. Not surprisingly, I failed... I've been in treatment and things are getting better but still very difficult.
I certainly understand what you mean by having faith in things other than religion. I still harbor faith in humanity, a lot of it! I question it from time to time, but by and large, the minority that disturbs me is not representative of the entirety of humanity. I also am an avid reader and ponderer of philosophy, my favorite is Stoic philosophy.
Thanks for your response and your kind words.
SPC Edison you have the same issue I have now I grew up a southern baptist all my life followed everything but feel I'm falling away because I opened my mind to everything other religions and people learning all I can. I would say be honest with your wife, in my relationships as I am not married in open that I have a faith when asked what is it I say it's faith I believe in a higher power but believe we should do by acts not words, because you can say what you want but I hear someone say they are good and see them act like assholes then I tell them it's not right. My family being religious doesn't like it much but accept my choice for my life though they try to change me back they find its hard when I can ask questions even pastors can't answer
SPC Jack Eidson Do you still love your wife? Is this the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with? If the answer is yes...then find a way.
I'm just a simple country boy - I don't know much about a lot of things. But I know that combat has a way of shaking up a man/woman in ways that have no point of reference and no obvious solution.
There are several things I see, hear and sense from your missive. You have doubts. Doubting is fine. But you're missing something that is extremely obvious to me - you're still hurting from the incident. You mention depression - what treatment did you obtain? Trust me when I say this - depression doesn't just go away. You don't take a pill for a couple of weeks and you're cured. NOPE. Doesn't happen that way. PTS and depression go hand -in-hand. Trust me.... Been There....Doing That ... every day.
Religion. I get it. You've made a decision. In the process you've created a situation for your wife that you spent years figuring out - but you dropped the bomb on her just recently - without any preparation. You can't expect her to just follow you blindly - maybe 100 years ago - but not today.
So....you have separated yourself and moved on from the church. Move on - continue your life. But give your wife the courtesy of a divorce and a fair life after you.
I'm just a simple country boy - I don't know much about a lot of things. But I know that combat has a way of shaking up a man/woman in ways that have no point of reference and no obvious solution.
There are several things I see, hear and sense from your missive. You have doubts. Doubting is fine. But you're missing something that is extremely obvious to me - you're still hurting from the incident. You mention depression - what treatment did you obtain? Trust me when I say this - depression doesn't just go away. You don't take a pill for a couple of weeks and you're cured. NOPE. Doesn't happen that way. PTS and depression go hand -in-hand. Trust me.... Been There....Doing That ... every day.
Religion. I get it. You've made a decision. In the process you've created a situation for your wife that you spent years figuring out - but you dropped the bomb on her just recently - without any preparation. You can't expect her to just follow you blindly - maybe 100 years ago - but not today.
So....you have separated yourself and moved on from the church. Move on - continue your life. But give your wife the courtesy of a divorce and a fair life after you.
Suspended Profile
Yes, I still love her, a great deal. In fact, I haven't had any loss of love due to this situation.
I am receiving treatment for my depression, it will probably take years to undue my damages... I have been going for a few months now - which is part of the reason why I am taking more accountability for my life. I cannot linger in things that multiply my depression anymore, I have to be true to myself. I should've been clear that I am in treatment for my problems... Many of my problems came onto me because I wouldn't stand up for my beliefs, I wouldn't be who I truly am - I was afraid to. I'm shredding that fear and living my life more purposefully - with that comes the hard parts such as this.
I should've also noted that I have informed her of my doubts for the last 2-3 years. I haven't been this decision-oriented about it. She knew I had severe doubts and I was working on determining whether I would remain in the Church. I wasn't keeping a dark secret to drop at any given point, it has been slowly coming out over time. She has been aware of the changes - I still don't think she expected my complete withdrawing though.
Divorce is her choice... I want to be with her, we have two great kids together. I love her immensely. I can get over the fact that she is LDS... I sincerely question whether she can get over the fact that I am an atheist who swore off the church she loves.
I am receiving treatment for my depression, it will probably take years to undue my damages... I have been going for a few months now - which is part of the reason why I am taking more accountability for my life. I cannot linger in things that multiply my depression anymore, I have to be true to myself. I should've been clear that I am in treatment for my problems... Many of my problems came onto me because I wouldn't stand up for my beliefs, I wouldn't be who I truly am - I was afraid to. I'm shredding that fear and living my life more purposefully - with that comes the hard parts such as this.
I should've also noted that I have informed her of my doubts for the last 2-3 years. I haven't been this decision-oriented about it. She knew I had severe doubts and I was working on determining whether I would remain in the Church. I wasn't keeping a dark secret to drop at any given point, it has been slowly coming out over time. She has been aware of the changes - I still don't think she expected my complete withdrawing though.
Divorce is her choice... I want to be with her, we have two great kids together. I love her immensely. I can get over the fact that she is LDS... I sincerely question whether she can get over the fact that I am an atheist who swore off the church she loves.
I look at it this way for all intents purposes I should not be here nine months in Vietnam, so many close calls not luck that’s a for sure month in a half in a army hospital guys died all around me, there is no such thing as luck I have died once I saw heaven it’s real it’s there I kid you not my friend love god with all your heart he’s for real give your heart to him you won’t regret it in the long run, you can say whatever you want about me and the following statement I’m a better man because of god.
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