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APFT
Fitness
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Why? We aren't enforcing the standards we have now. The three event APFT is constantly failed across the board, active and reserve, but we do very little about it. So what benefit is adding another event?
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MSG(P) (Join to see)
Ah. I didn't get that from the post. My original answer still stands though. I don't see the benefit. Core endurance and strength is much more important in the scheme of things than back and bicep strength.
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The USMC uses pull-ups for our PFT.
For males, Min 3, max 20. For females it had traditionally been the dead-arm hang with a timer. They are transitioning to a pull-up however, with Min 3, max 8.
You'll note that the Normalized Deviation for upper body strength between Males & Females when using this Test is HUGE.
This is not about STANDARDS. This is about FITNESS. The test measures FITNESS. A Female doing 8 Pull-ups is at the same "theoretical" fitness level as a Male doing 20 Pull-ups, for upper body strength.
That said, the deviation is massive. Trying to institute this in the Army would be insane.
The Push Up, has a much "narrower" deviation as a test between genders.
When you are trying to measure Fitness, you want to keep these tests as simple as possible, as universal as possible, and remove as many arguments as possible.
For males, Min 3, max 20. For females it had traditionally been the dead-arm hang with a timer. They are transitioning to a pull-up however, with Min 3, max 8.
You'll note that the Normalized Deviation for upper body strength between Males & Females when using this Test is HUGE.
This is not about STANDARDS. This is about FITNESS. The test measures FITNESS. A Female doing 8 Pull-ups is at the same "theoretical" fitness level as a Male doing 20 Pull-ups, for upper body strength.
That said, the deviation is massive. Trying to institute this in the Army would be insane.
The Push Up, has a much "narrower" deviation as a test between genders.
When you are trying to measure Fitness, you want to keep these tests as simple as possible, as universal as possible, and remove as many arguments as possible.
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PV2 (Join to see)
I came from the Marine Corps so my mind set being in the Army is still questioning if we did it over there why couldn't we do it here?.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
PV2 (Join to see) Scale. What works for 220k doesn't necessarily work for 1.1M, including National Guard & Reserves.
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SSG (Join to see)
That is the big problem for pull up for me is that deviation. also logistics and same standards in grading from one unit to another. You can see that in the army with the push up one grader will grade very differently from another.
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It is related to the strength required to do what we might actually need to do in combat... climb an obstacle and the like.
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CW5 Jim Steddum
I guess the answer rests with who "they" are? I know that TRADOC is re-looking the APFT again. LTG Mangum spoke recently at the Warrant Officer Career College an spoke on this very topic. Then, the student that heard him speak, used that as a guide for a Project to discover what right might look like. Pull-ups were a big part of that.
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We had to do them to Pass Airborne School, ten pull ups if my memory serves me.
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MCPO Roger Collins
So, do we only use the test for those that are assigned to combat roles? At what point will this decision be made as to assignment and to prepare for the test? Way too many moving parts. Anyone susceptible to being assigned to a combat role should have the same criteria as any male.
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No, I do pull ups on my own. They can't get the current APFT right! Let them fix the current mess before adding more fuel to the fire.
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PV2 (Join to see)
Instead of adding pulling ups to the APFT then sir, how would you fix or manipulate the current APFT which in your words is a "mess"? Just curious.
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Col (Join to see)
Fix the waist measurement issues. I am 6'1" and 200 lbs. I haven't had a 30" waist since high school. Let's get realistic. For those who train and are athletic, often their obliques and abs increase in size as well as increase the waist measurement. One of the few accurate ways to calculate fat percentage is by using a water displacement tank. I am not certain what the solution is, but I don't see the waist measurement as an 100% accurate indicator of physical fitness.
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The problems with adding pull ups are one having pull up bars everywhere. We just don't have them right now all you need is a 2 mile track or a bit of road that you know the distance of 2 miles there is no equipment needed you can do a pt test almost anywhere. also the pull up does not have a very large range of what is poor and what is excellent. I think the push up does a good job with upper body. If I was going to add something I would add a ruck. but I don't see a problem with the PT test that we have now.
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Not having been there, my comments are purely academic, but if I were in a combat situation the required someone to haul my injured butt out of the line of fire, I would want someone that has the upper body strength to do so.
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