Posted on Jan 25, 2015
AF Commander relieved 6 months after death occurred?
11.2K
36
13
0
0
0
Officials at Fort Bragg say a squadron commander has been relieved of her position based on the investigation of a July death at Pope Field.
The Fayetteville Observer reports Air Force Col. Elizabeth Shaw was removed from command of the 43rd Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron on Thursday.
http://hamptonroads.com/2015/01/squadron-commander-fort-bragg-relieved-after-death
The Fayetteville Observer reports Air Force Col. Elizabeth Shaw was removed from command of the 43rd Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron on Thursday.
http://hamptonroads.com/2015/01/squadron-commander-fort-bragg-relieved-after-death
Accountability
Death
Command
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
4
4
0
Definitely a sad story. The unnecessary and likely preventable loss of life. And - on a much lower level - another "loss of confidence" relief.
(4)
(0)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
CW5 (Join to see), a lot of that going around. Makes one wonder, is it happening more, or are we just hearing about it more in the age of the instant media?
(2)
(0)
4
4
0
- Agree with CW02 Reck that the article does not provide enough information to provide quality discussion on.
- Generically speaking, however, it is not unusual for a death investigation to take time, be completed, higher command digest that investigation, and then decisions made based upon the investigation. Six months later would not be unusual especially if autopsies, labs, and other investigative facts had to be established.
- Aside from the death investigation, a follow on 15-6 investigation might also have been conducted to look at potential surrounding issues such as command policies, SOPs, guidance, etc that might have directly or indirectly contributed to the airman's death that the Squadron Commander either should have known/implemented or that she knew/implemented in a negative manner.
- At the end of the day, the only things that the article states for a fact are that 1) a SSG died and that 2) a squadron commander was relieved for "loss of confidence in ability to command".
- Generically speaking, however, it is not unusual for a death investigation to take time, be completed, higher command digest that investigation, and then decisions made based upon the investigation. Six months later would not be unusual especially if autopsies, labs, and other investigative facts had to be established.
- Aside from the death investigation, a follow on 15-6 investigation might also have been conducted to look at potential surrounding issues such as command policies, SOPs, guidance, etc that might have directly or indirectly contributed to the airman's death that the Squadron Commander either should have known/implemented or that she knew/implemented in a negative manner.
- At the end of the day, the only things that the article states for a fact are that 1) a SSG died and that 2) a squadron commander was relieved for "loss of confidence in ability to command".
(4)
(0)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
SPC (Join to see), I am away from a "real computer" right now so I can really look up the article I remember reading on it, the unit was not qualified to do the exercise they were running, HHQ had previously advised them not to do it. Once I get back to the house, I will see I can locate that one.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
CWO2 Shannon Reck, LTC Stephen C., COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM, CPO (Join to see)
Gents,
This isnt the article from a few months ago, but it is a much better written article with more details regarding the issue.
http://www.fayobserver.com/military/air-force-colonel-relieved-of-duties-after-fort-bragg-training/article_66a0c8d4-4518-57a0-8268-9287ac6a01af.html
Gents,
This isnt the article from a few months ago, but it is a much better written article with more details regarding the issue.
http://www.fayobserver.com/military/air-force-colonel-relieved-of-duties-after-fort-bragg-training/article_66a0c8d4-4518-57a0-8268-9287ac6a01af.html
(3)
(0)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
Here is an AF Time article from Last month http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2014/12/08/humvee-accident-death-investigation-pope-army-airfield-timothy-wright/20104667/
(0)
(0)
CPO (Join to see)
Thank you, much better article. It is a shame when people publish crap just to hit a deadline and have no facts to show the truth.
This is horrible, to me, one of the things that is worst of all, there are not criminal charges for criminal neglect that resulted in death, it is a murder charge in most courts. Here, this person and the others that violated their oath will get retirement instead of jail time. That is what will be the wrong thing happen here.
The chain of command exists for many reasons, one of which, to give guidance and information preventing the group think process from putting our peoples lives in danger. The chain of command that walked off and said, oh ok, lets do this, they should all be prosecuted for conspiracy.
There is no acceptable loss in a simple training exercise, especially when the exercise has been reviewed by peers prior and rejected as not permitted or safe.
That would be criminal negligent homicide in a civilian court, they should not get a retirement check here. They should see charges here also.
This is about accountability. This is about abusive leadership and the lacking of character it takes to be in command leadership positions.
Either we stand up and say NO when something is very wrong or we do not. None of us can turn and say afterward, if we knew, and did nothing that our hands would be clean.
This was wrong, there were many here who knew and were in a position to stop and protect that persons life. That was their job.
This is horrible, to me, one of the things that is worst of all, there are not criminal charges for criminal neglect that resulted in death, it is a murder charge in most courts. Here, this person and the others that violated their oath will get retirement instead of jail time. That is what will be the wrong thing happen here.
The chain of command exists for many reasons, one of which, to give guidance and information preventing the group think process from putting our peoples lives in danger. The chain of command that walked off and said, oh ok, lets do this, they should all be prosecuted for conspiracy.
There is no acceptable loss in a simple training exercise, especially when the exercise has been reviewed by peers prior and rejected as not permitted or safe.
That would be criminal negligent homicide in a civilian court, they should not get a retirement check here. They should see charges here also.
This is about accountability. This is about abusive leadership and the lacking of character it takes to be in command leadership positions.
Either we stand up and say NO when something is very wrong or we do not. None of us can turn and say afterward, if we knew, and did nothing that our hands would be clean.
This was wrong, there were many here who knew and were in a position to stop and protect that persons life. That was their job.
(1)
(0)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
SFC Mark Merino, I am pretty sure "opps" doesn't cut it, especially in a training scenario.
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
This article is horribly written. The lead in and the lack of any truth or facts leaves one to only have an emotional response.
Are ratings really that bad that an article like this and of this caliber is considered news? This article is nothing more than a start of a gossip chain.
Very sad as many will jump on this and hold an online judgmental discussion based strictly on the knee jerk and poor information released here. That is the very sad part. This is not a source that knows how to report facts. That is quite easy to see.
As to the offense, Loss of confidence could be based on many things, many, many things. The gossip rags are full of them.
Are ratings really that bad that an article like this and of this caliber is considered news? This article is nothing more than a start of a gossip chain.
Very sad as many will jump on this and hold an online judgmental discussion based strictly on the knee jerk and poor information released here. That is the very sad part. This is not a source that knows how to report facts. That is quite easy to see.
As to the offense, Loss of confidence could be based on many things, many, many things. The gossip rags are full of them.
(1)
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
It is fairly common to see reliefs for cause reported this way as the relief for loss of confidence in ability to command is administrative. The services do not release administrative and non-judicial punishments. As others stated, it likely waited 6 months due to investigation(s) probably a 15-6 and a criminal investigation.
(3)
(0)
I have no issue with the decision taking 6 months, so long as safe guards were in place in the case the command was concerned the death was caused or a proximate case of leadership failure>
As stated elsewhere.. autopsies, labs, interviews, follow up interviews, some taking place at other duty stations likely,, these take time. There there is the time it takes for the appointing authority to review the final investigation, then the review of that.
So long as the command was safe and under competent leadership in the interim I would hope the investigation took as long as needed to be fair, through and complete.,
As stated elsewhere.. autopsies, labs, interviews, follow up interviews, some taking place at other duty stations likely,, these take time. There there is the time it takes for the appointing authority to review the final investigation, then the review of that.
So long as the command was safe and under competent leadership in the interim I would hope the investigation took as long as needed to be fair, through and complete.,
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
It was an incredibly sad incident. She was a good commander from those I know that worked under her, and the unit is one of the best in the Air Force. I wasn't part of the exercise, so I don't have first hand knowledge, but it's not an unusual exercise. Last minute changes in the role playing and script were a contributing factor from what I understand.
It's never good when someone is injured or killed in a training exercise, and it's potentially harder on these folks because nearly everyone involved is medically trained and they weren't able to save him.
I don't know that it's normal for a commander to be relieved when a training accident leads to death of a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine... but I do know that leadership responsibility is ultimately where the buck stops (short of equipment failure or gross negligence on the part of the victim).
It's a great loss to the Air Force in the form of the SSG and the Col. Both were dedicated to bringing home our wounded with the best care, safely and quickly. They were both exceptionally good at it.
It's never good when someone is injured or killed in a training exercise, and it's potentially harder on these folks because nearly everyone involved is medically trained and they weren't able to save him.
I don't know that it's normal for a commander to be relieved when a training accident leads to death of a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine... but I do know that leadership responsibility is ultimately where the buck stops (short of equipment failure or gross negligence on the part of the victim).
It's a great loss to the Air Force in the form of the SSG and the Col. Both were dedicated to bringing home our wounded with the best care, safely and quickly. They were both exceptionally good at it.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google