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So here's a question sure to drive some opinions from all over. Two beers in a combat zone, should it be allowed or no? I know for me personally, and no I'm not an alcoholic, but after a long day at work or busy day doing stressful tasks, I enjoy coming home and cracking a cold one. When I was in Iraq in 08-09 we were allowed to have two beers at our little JSS while watching the Super Bowl. To me it was a nice chance to kick back and take a load off. My thinking is, with all the cases of PTSD coming up, what if we allowed that decompression each night (provided soldiers are not immediately going out on mission), would it potentially lower the stress levels of soldiers knowing no matter how bad the day is that at the end of it they can crack a cold one and chill out a bit? So, should it be allowed or not?
Posted in these groups: 
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
Alcohol
PTSD
Deployment
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan Alcohol PTSD Deployment
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 115
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As much as I love beer. I wouldn't want my judgment or vision impaired under those conditions.
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LTC (Join to see)
at the risk of dating myself, I remember a time when it was permissible to have no more than two drinks with lunch. Unfortunately, that was abused and rather than punish the offenders, we all lost the privilege.
Many other countries allow/permit alcohol in combat and/or field training environments. Why cannot we?
Many other countries allow/permit alcohol in combat and/or field training environments. Why cannot we?
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MSgt (Join to see)
I love to drink. That being said I don't think it's appropriate to have in that environment. There will always be people who find a way around the rations and get trashed. I have seen it at both Manas, the Deid, and Djibouti. You need to be focused on one thing when deployed in a combat environment and that's the men and women who are out there with you.
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Steven Gall
Bullshit, I see those guys in the desert,they should be aloud at least two beers a day.They are working harder than us back home. However there has to be an ass hole rule. Anyone that fights after drinking is off. O tolerance,perioud.
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Unfortunately, I'm going to say "No" to this one because of the mission and General Order 1A. There is a reason that these orders are published and by law we need to adhere to them and follow them. As a leader I made sure that my command followed these right down tot he letter. When they left for their military leave out of Theater they had a chance to enjoy their beverages of choice. Let's not work around the orders or the rules with exceptions here and there. Let's be uniform and maintain the standards that have set. If the Order gets rescinded for whatever reason and a new one takes place that allows uniformity and new set of rules then we follow that one, but until then, unless something has changes we follow the orders. That is just my opinion as a past leader and Commander.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
LTC (Join to see) and LTC Paul Labrador I agree with both of you on certain levels, but as a former Commander I just don't think alcohol shouldn't be in the combat zone. Out of the zone is a different story altogether. This is just my opinion. When I look at the number of deaths caused just by accidents in the business that we we're in (non-combat) and then we take into account the combat environment (where everyone needs to be on their best game 24/7), I just think General 1A (even if it was a knee jerk reaction or a simple way to execute a standard across a broad range, or to respect a culture) it makes sense to me and I liked it. I had a good crew that followed it and we all felt good about when we got home. Again, I think the standard makes sense in the Combat Zone and during major training events while in CONUS. I respect your opinions though - that is the great thing about RP. We can express our thoughts openly and engage!
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LTC (Join to see)
I am not advocating the consumption of alcohol while on a mission or during a fire fight by any means. My thougt process he is more of the limited down time at the FOB.
Granted and attack can happen at any time, and we all need to understand our own limits when it comes to alcohol, but I dont see an issue with enjoing a nice cold one at the end of the day if the situation permits.
Granted and attack can happen at any time, and we all need to understand our own limits when it comes to alcohol, but I dont see an issue with enjoing a nice cold one at the end of the day if the situation permits.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
I am actually torn on this one, but I voted "no" for the sake of mission first. However, since there are multiple international studies that indicate the benefits of alcohol (in moderation), there are many good reasons to allow it behind the lines. Definitely not beyond the wire though. The problem arises with abuse which is difficult to control.
From a command prospective, its easier to control it if you ban it outright. Although that is a lazy approach in my opinion. But I can say that in the high speed world of SOCOM, alcohol use tends to be ignored. As long as the mission gets done, the other stuff is incidental.
From a command prospective, its easier to control it if you ban it outright. Although that is a lazy approach in my opinion. But I can say that in the high speed world of SOCOM, alcohol use tends to be ignored. As long as the mission gets done, the other stuff is incidental.
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To be frank I think American Generals are way too uptight about alcohol down range.
I was at both British and German bases where it was allowed, no problems.
I was at both British and German bases where it was allowed, no problems.
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SGT William Howell
CPT (Join to see) Ok! I have to call a bullshit on the play. Not sure how we moved from drinking in combat to raping and pillaging our own troops. I drank in combat did not rape one person the whole time. I know it is hard to believe with that evil booze of the devil. I also had a 100% success rate of rendering aid while under mortar attack. If I didn't have to do any that is 100% right?
You want to know what is dangerous? A 6'3", 240 pound grown ass man, who has not seen his family in 15 months, who has spent at least 5 days a week outside the wire and can't be trusted to drink a couple beers.
You want to know what is dangerous? A 6'3", 240 pound grown ass man, who has not seen his family in 15 months, who has spent at least 5 days a week outside the wire and can't be trusted to drink a couple beers.
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SPC Chris Schaller
We had a ton of drinking in Iraq at all leadership levels. It kept the morale up more than anything except near the holidays. Xannax was abused by many and when mixed with alcohol, created a bad combo. It was because it was banned that allowed the internal black market to flourish
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CDR James Christopher
Was in Iraq in Anbar in 04, and we got 2 beers on the Marine Corps birthday.
When I went to Afghanistan in 08, I was the OIC of a surgical team and worked closely with SF and partner nations (Brits, Aussies, and Dutch). We had a bad day when we lost several guys, the Aussies brought some beer over to our FB. There were no Ops planned, we drank to our lost comrades, and de-stressed. Similar thing when they had a bad day; no one drank to excess, we never drank when our guys were out on an Op. We were smart about it and treated everyone as adults. There were no issues.
When I went to Afghanistan in 08, I was the OIC of a surgical team and worked closely with SF and partner nations (Brits, Aussies, and Dutch). We had a bad day when we lost several guys, the Aussies brought some beer over to our FB. There were no Ops planned, we drank to our lost comrades, and de-stressed. Similar thing when they had a bad day; no one drank to excess, we never drank when our guys were out on an Op. We were smart about it and treated everyone as adults. There were no issues.
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CPT Earl George
CPT (Join to see) - germany 72-72 Alcohol or drugs. Most troops were doing one or both and germany was not a combat zone at the time.
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While I do not have any statistics on it, didn't seem to be an issue for our military during Vietnam; outside of the cultural differences in the mid-east, which can be a joke, Baghdad comes to mind, the real problem would be the self-adherence to a 2-drink limit. I know in Germany when we went to gunnery, we had the Blackhorse Inn, and we could have 2 beers when we were not on the range the next day, this led to the infamous "first and last, everything in between didn't count" mentality, and we never had a single alcohol related incident.
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PVT Robert Gresham
I also remember the famous 2 beer limit while training in Germany...... Of course, no one said anything about shots with our German counterparts in between ........ :-))
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1LT William Clardy
SFC William Swartz Jr, having personally witnessed a, shall we say, *much* more liberal alcohol-consumption policy while working a range during an inter-agency competitive shoot with our German hosts, I have a hard time believing that a single beer (or even two) will render a soldier unfit for duty.
I should also add that I also got to participate in the fiasco that resulted when my armored cavalry squadron got rolled out on an alert the evening after our Organization Day celebration. Portions of the motor pool didn't fair too well that night, and the MP shack at the kaserne gate took a direct hit from a 105mm barrel which wasn't quite fully forward yet. So nobody should mistake my view for thinking that being drunk while operating a 53-ton war machine is a good idea.
I should also add that I also got to participate in the fiasco that resulted when my armored cavalry squadron got rolled out on an alert the evening after our Organization Day celebration. Portions of the motor pool didn't fair too well that night, and the MP shack at the kaserne gate took a direct hit from a 105mm barrel which wasn't quite fully forward yet. So nobody should mistake my view for thinking that being drunk while operating a 53-ton war machine is a good idea.
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CW5 (Join to see)
It was a big issue in VietNam for some of us..........we had trouble getting it! Ah, but when we did! Of course there was the Vietnamese beer, Bau me Bau, or however it is spelled, supposedly had formaldehyde in the brewing process. Talk about getting embalmed!!
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SSG Edward Tilton
CW5 (Join to see) - We had our beer cut off by some religious group (American Taliban) OB, San Miguel, 33, whatever we could get
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We did have beer in Vietnam and it was not a problem. I don't see anything wrong with it if you are not on a mission. I was in Iraq in 2003 and the individuals that did not want the troops to drink were not following their own guidance. I don't believe that the English and Aussie followed the same guidance that we did. I believe that we are all in one military and the regulations should pertain to everyone. It the standing rule says" No alcohol, that means for everyone, no matter the rank.
I had a BN commander that wanted me to confine my company to their barracks and join him and his staff at the O Club. That did not happen. If my fellow soldiers can't drink, then neither will I or any of my NCO's.
I had a BN commander that wanted me to confine my company to their barracks and join him and his staff at the O Club. That did not happen. If my fellow soldiers can't drink, then neither will I or any of my NCO's.
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
Now the Army is giving classes on "Ethics"? Thank you for your service and 1SG decisions!
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There is no guarantee that a few drinks would stave off PTSD. I would hate to see those with early stages of PTSD somehow wangling the system and possibly getting more than the hypothetically allotted 2 beers. Whole series of other issues there, methinks.
I truly think that keeping sharp and vigilant is of the utmost importance. Even one beer under specific circumstances can alter ones judgment irrespective of size/weight.
We all just accept that when we are deployed, we don't drink and it sucks. We work out, we get diesel, we come home, we drink and eat, we get fat again. Cycle on. Lol
I truly think that keeping sharp and vigilant is of the utmost importance. Even one beer under specific circumstances can alter ones judgment irrespective of size/weight.
We all just accept that when we are deployed, we don't drink and it sucks. We work out, we get diesel, we come home, we drink and eat, we get fat again. Cycle on. Lol
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1LT William Clardy
CMSgt (Join to see), how aware are you of medical studies showing a correlation between (very) moderate drinking and reduced mortality rates? For example:
"[R]esearchers found the relationship between alcohol intake and mortality for both men and women to be J-shaped curves: the lowest observed risk for overall mortality was associated with an average of 10 grams of alcohol (less than one drink) per day for men and less for women." (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh24-1/05-11.pdf)
In addition, there are also some, admittedly controversial, indications that moderate drinking may actually enhance cognitive ability or reduce the likelihood of dementia:
"Although the relationship between heavy alcohol consumption and cognitive impairment is well established, the effects of moderate drinking on the ability to perform cognitive tasks, including remembering, reasoning, and thinking, are largely unexplored...
"However, several recent studies suggest that moderate alcohol consumption may have a positive effect on cognitive function. In an analysis of baseline data (data collected at the beginning of a study) for persons aged 59 through 71 who were enrolled in the Epidemiology of Vascular Aging Study in France, moderate alcohol consumption was associated with higher cognitive functioning among women but not men after a number of possible confounding variables were controlled for (Dufouil et al. 1997). Another study, which followed 3,777 community residents in France who drank primarily wine, found a markedly reduced risk of the incidence of dementia among moderate drinkers relative to abstainers (Orgogozo et al. 1997). (ibid.)
"[R]esearchers found the relationship between alcohol intake and mortality for both men and women to be J-shaped curves: the lowest observed risk for overall mortality was associated with an average of 10 grams of alcohol (less than one drink) per day for men and less for women." (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh24-1/05-11.pdf)
In addition, there are also some, admittedly controversial, indications that moderate drinking may actually enhance cognitive ability or reduce the likelihood of dementia:
"Although the relationship between heavy alcohol consumption and cognitive impairment is well established, the effects of moderate drinking on the ability to perform cognitive tasks, including remembering, reasoning, and thinking, are largely unexplored...
"However, several recent studies suggest that moderate alcohol consumption may have a positive effect on cognitive function. In an analysis of baseline data (data collected at the beginning of a study) for persons aged 59 through 71 who were enrolled in the Epidemiology of Vascular Aging Study in France, moderate alcohol consumption was associated with higher cognitive functioning among women but not men after a number of possible confounding variables were controlled for (Dufouil et al. 1997). Another study, which followed 3,777 community residents in France who drank primarily wine, found a markedly reduced risk of the incidence of dementia among moderate drinkers relative to abstainers (Orgogozo et al. 1997). (ibid.)
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CPO (Join to see)
The positive effects on cognition of alcohol use by the elderly are likely to not be impacted by 12 months of abstinence in combat. Save it for CONUS.
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SN Greg Wright
CMSgt (Join to see) On the contrary, it seems to me (total armchair psychologist here) that PTSD would be exacerbated by access to alcohol. Seems like it has great potential to become a crutch. Not sure that's the best thing to give someone having a hard time, mentally.
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MAJ (Join to see)
MAJ Rowelette, I couldn't have put it better. While I'm unsure of the ability to impact PTSD(which I don't believe it will), I do think that a couple of drinks allowed througout the week while downrange would do more good than harm. Hell, most of the time you are too busy or too tired to drink or have ops the next day anyway(that is if you are a responsible service member, care about your job, and care about your troops), but the few exeptions where you don't, it would be nice to feel a bit civilized and have a couple of beers or a couple of glasses of wine while you unwind or have supper. The key is coming down harshly on troops that abuse it. If leadership truly believes that some troops are not drinking some alcohol at some point on a deployment they are fooling themselves anyway. Sadly, they know this anyway and most likely participate themselves. If we only punished those that did stupid things we'd all get a lot more done!
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A good decompression from the difficulties soldiers face daily is always a good thing. Under certain circumstances you want your best and brightest sober and fully mission capable. I love a good drink with the team after a long day but there has and always will be occansions where soldiers take things out of hand and that's why there's rules and regs. Without someone telling us our left and right limits of advance we would runaround like chickens with no heads. I'm on the side of two and maybe four drink mins. But still it's up to the soldiers to really not ruin it for others.
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SFC (Join to see)
I 100% agree. As much as I would love to get the adult treatment, I understand the fact that there are those who would abuse it, and this, we must at times relinquish that adult atmosphere when we put the uniform on and go to work lest we be surrounded by untrained monkeys running amock.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Maximum amount allowed and minimum "drink to mission" timeframes are realistic control measures.
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SSG Damon Lightfoot
Agreed, I too was in Baghdad that same rotation, '08-'09, and there were a lot of guys who didn't drink that were trading their 2 beers for chew and other stuff... then allowing others to get drunk while living with Iraqi police that we were training... and these guys were not to be trusted of course. There's always "that guy" who messes up everything.
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My reasoning is very simple: overall, it would be better to allow combat troops to self-medicate in moderation than to forbid such attempts because the current result of that prohibition seems to be a dramatic increase in the prescribing of psychotropic drugs to alleviate the stress after the troops start to break.
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I go with "no" overall but it isn't a slam dunk. There are also restrictions outside the combat zone i.e. 2 beer/wine limit in Djibouti. Like everything else, any policy needs to be managed and a no alcohol policy is less resource intensive than a some alcohol policy. The US is essentially buying cheap insurance to not have problems associated with alcohol.
That said, there is an alcohol tradition in several of the world's navies. Until recently, beer on the mess decks on Canadian ships was common. They're recently pulled back heavily on that.
That said, there is an alcohol tradition in several of the world's navies. Until recently, beer on the mess decks on Canadian ships was common. They're recently pulled back heavily on that.
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LTC Paul Labrador
DoD personnel in theater who were assigned to DoS duty were not under GO1. The Baghdad Embassy PX had a full Class 6 and anyone on permanent orders assigning them to the Embassy could drink. It was very weird going across the street from FOB Union III (under CENTCOM control) to the PX of DFAC on the Embassy grounds and seeing folks drinking beer.
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We must obey the local culture and custom of that nation in the combat zone.
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SFC (Join to see)
Yeah, except some of the things I saw on their cell phones imprinted a horrible HORRIBLE burka memory on my mind. I shudder thinking about it, gross.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Does that mean we observe Ramadan while an Islamic Nation? I don't know if they look at that as more 'infidel nonsense' or what...you're not a Muslim, so why are you parroting the religion? I'm all for cultural sensitivity. I don't think it was intended as cultural sensitivity. It's more to be 100% ready all the time. You can say "i'm not going on patrol" but what if they didn't tell the enemy that? I don't do weapons handling at home while drunk, or weapons training while impaired, so why would I want to give up that readiness because I'm in the Combat zone?
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