Are E-9s needed?

Wow...I normally don't respond to discussion board questions, but this one really stood out to me. Do we really need E9's...absolutely "Yes". Many of us owe our careers and the soldiers we became to one or more E9's, I can only speak for myself...but without the guidance and direction from some great E9's I would have never turned out to be the Non-Commissioned Officer I did...to this very day I use the lessons and teaching points taught to me by these great Leaders...the second reason, they are the standard bearers of the history and responsibilities of the NCO/PO Corps, they share and pass the knowledge on...even as a E8 I always looked up to the E9 for guidance and direction. So, from this old Airborne Infantryman...do we need E9's...hell yes, they help shape and guide the future leaders of the organization...

Every E-9 which means Sergeant Major, and numerous Command Sergeant Major's I met were exceptional which inspires me to continue serve with those great leaders. As we progress through rank we all choose the qualities of those amazing leaders and uphold them.

Of course we do, at least in the Army! Who else is gonna yell at Privates to keep off the grass or berate them for uniform infractions so minute that nobody knew they were in AR 670-1?

*Disclaimer* The above post is purely an attempt at humor. I have nothing but respect for those holding the CSM and SGM ranks. No PVTs, PV2s or PFCs were harmed in the typing of this post.

No. We need E-10s! As a martial arts instructor, I am a fan of Student and Master. That's it. But if you ever studied the Social Comparison Theory, you know we need some kind of pecking order to know where we stand in the great scheme of the universe. So we have all kinds of bars and stars and stripes and medals and ribbons...and GOALS so we can perpetually be motivated and gain yet more status to leave others in our dust...like rank, 'cause we can't all be kings or queens. Ok, more of us can be queens these days, but that's not the point.

Well first and foremost as a sergeant major your job is to be the senior enlisted advisor to the commander. You give advice on training and administration issues. You support and enforce the commander's vision for the unit. You're [CSM] also the President of the promotion board, even though the commander defers the position to you because technically the commander is the President. And last but not least the sergeant major is in charge of personnel moves within the BN & BDE depending on the level. Other than those three responsiblities that I know of, that's all a sergeant major does.

Short answer to your specific question (Are E-9s needed?): Yes, they are.

Now here's the long answer: By statute, they (E-9s) can make up no more than 1% to, in some cases, 1.25% of the entire enlisted force. That's the vast majority of the U.S. military, the group of people they're charged with representing. And that's the right word: represent.

In the Navy, master chiefs (E-9s) make up the selection boards that advance (or don't advance) the next crop of chief petty officers, senior chief petty officers and master chief petty officers. That is an incredibly complex and important responsibility and it happens once per year per pay grade. In a nutshell, they hand-pick their reliefs, and it is a VERY competitive process.

All that said, what I think you're asking, Staff Sgt. Woods, is this: are COMMAND sergeants major, or in my case, command master chiefs, worth their salt? Again, short answer: yes, aside from the politicians who forget or obscure the fact they came from the lower enlisted echelons like everyone else and still put their BDU/ACU/NWU trousers on one pant-leg at a time like everyone else.

I think your point of view may be jaded by the fact that despite the idea they're supposed to be the commander's right-hand man or woman as it pertains to the enlisted force, some either forget that fact or are perceived to be distant, furtive and/or unapproachable. To be fair about it, some are, particularly some of the graduates of the Senior Enlisted Academy as far as the Navy is concerned. I've never taken well to people who put on airs, and some of them do.

But know this: the day we forget where we come from is the day we cease being relevant. If you think your one God-given job is to fuck with other people 1.) because you can and 2.) because you have nothing better to do, perhaps it's time to drop your retirement papers and seek another line of work. ALL NCOs are charged with enforcing standards, not just those in the highest pay grades of the NCO corps.

Michelle,

The military has evolved, but not in every position. The noncommissioned officer stays on the line, in their MOS, for the majority of their career. I served three years outside of an infantry battalion. Two years as a drill sergeant training infantryman and a year in an infantry brigade S-3. In all 18 years out of 20 leading soldiers in light, mechanized, and Bradley units.

Officers do not spend that time in leadership positions. Noncommissioned officers provide their expertise so officers can make the best decisions. Our military is in the same position as post Vietnam. We have a lot of time deployed and not much down or training time.

I think the Army needs to rethink promotions and training. I served in mainly mechanized infantry units, but every CSM we had was light infantry, airborne, or a ranger background. The 1SG were the expertise in the battalion and not the CSM. None of the CSMs were experts in the tactics of that unit. The NCO must be able to execute the plan without an officer, history has many examples.

I would not put much thought on the comments of a green captain. Stay clear of officers and NCO who downgrade positions. Weed them out as you progress.

So Michelle, change the Army.

SSG Woods, Rallypoint is acting up lately and I can't see the other responses. Taking a LONG time to load now days. To your question though, I had the same general impression as a young officer. In general, most of my experiences were bad ones. I met a couple of good S3 SGM's, but I had no idea what they actually did most of the time. It wasn't until I was a Squadron Commander that I truly appreciated the rank. I think the best people to ask are 1SG's. A LT or a CPT and often a Major just don't understand what a SGM or a CSM does most of the time. The S3 and the XO can understand what the Operations SGM does, but often the CSM comes in and out of their daily business without total understanding. For me, my CSM is invaluable. It's amazing how little time a Commander spends with Soldiers. It is unfortunate but true. The Command Sergeant Major at the Squadron level has daily interactions with the 1SG's and can get a feel for the unit, while the Commander's information is often filtered by the officers under his command. I can't tell you about the BDE and DIV level CSM's. I assume it's the same, just a little removed. I'd like to believe that they play a large hand in the professional development of the 1SG's in the Brigade. I'm not sure though. I have trusted my CSM with some very specific areas of responsibility that cross over into both operations and personnel readiness...he's also a Tank Master Gunner and his expertise there is invaluable. He is my sounding board and really the only person I can talk to about things that are chapping my a$$ at any particular moment. Couldn't do without him.

The problem isn’t the rank or pay grade. The problem is that most modern military procedures and doctrine have weakened the power of the senior most enlisted positions and still levies the same amount of responsibility on them. The once feared and most respected rank any branch has been reduced to a stigma of the old grumpy dusty dinosaur that is too often displayed in movies or television.
E9s, when employed appropriately, are truly needed in their respective branches. Not only for the purpose of providing a voice for the Commander to the enlisted, but to be the commander’s ears and eyes for the enlisted. A true Sergeant Major (in reference to Army) will not only enforce the highest levels of discipline but also be the spokesman for the care, training, and treatment of his/her Soldiers. Without this representation at all levels of the military, our greatest assets, the Service members, will be ill represented. When you see an E9 in your branch thank him/her. You will never truly understand the mountain of a job they have till you had to do it yourself.

I think IF this question has had to be asked, the officer in question or the soldier in question hasn't had the correct CSM/SGM to lead them. I've had both sides of the aspect. I've literally sat in when my CSM had the FBI come in to their office to arrest them for extortion, and I've also been on the good side and had a CSM ( CSM (Join to see) ) change the entire way that I led my soldiers! The truth is, That if an officer THINKS that they don't need a CSM or that senior leadership...then they are dead wrong! In my opinion it works both way! The CSM needs commissioned officer just as bad as an officer needs a CSM. If you want TRUE leadership and mentoring...You need to have CSM's in your unit!