Are E-9s needed?

Just the way I remember SGM/CSM's from active duty in the late '70's, Top. I could see what you relate as a SP5. But in recent yrs in the Reserves the rank has become very political and many of them are self serving, literally.

MSG Reid Stone, I'm not sure what you mean by "you can see what I relate as a SP5. Do you mean the SGM rank has become self serving?

1SG, guess I did not mean it the way it was written, sorry! I don't think the rank is self serving but the person promoted into the rank, especially in the Reserves. I remember some awesome E9's from time in Germany, mentored/guided and always had time for questions. Not the same in the Reserves. I hope you keep the same open mindedness as your CSM/SGM's have with you and continue to take care of the troops. Hooah!

P01 Sandeen--there is an adage: "newspapers don't print the truth. They print what people say is the truth." Sex is one of the 10 elements of news--and most of the elements tend to be negative because that is what sells. We want to think media are today, or have always been Seekers of Truth, but most are Seekers of Entertainment; because you can sell tickets (Navy Times) for the Entertainment. The more elements, the more sensational, the more papers or audience, the more the circulation, the more ads we can sell to pay ourselves. Doesn't have to be true. Sex, Oddity, Prominence, Proximity, Immediacy, Consequence, Conflict, Progress, Human Interest, Timeliness....and so on...

SSG V. Michelle Woods

I have a pony for you...it is my daughter's but it sounds like you need it more.

https://11main.com/mos-chateau/hasbro-furreal-friends-butterscotch-pony-good-condition-with-carrot/p/1300889?ref=DF4rcI_udU6GfakKSQwtHg&kpid=1300889&cid=cse_gg_crafts-hobbies-&-toys__[pla]-(cht)_ [login to see] 5&utm_source=gg&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=_&utm_content=11_main&utm_campaign=[pla]-(cht)&ref=DF4rcI_udU6GfakKSQwtHg&kpid=1300889

You can have the saddle I made for her too.

Damn you SSG V. Michelle Woods! Now I keep getting notifications for ponies!

Bahahahahahahaha that's what you get for sassing me sir :)

SGT Hanner, yes, the Army created a special pay grade for SMA, effectively E10, with his own flag. I had to be come a civilian to get a flag. Used to be we were also issued a Pistola--generals have a GO serial number, SGMs had E9xxxxx and we could purchase them upon retirement--but no more!

That's a good point SFC (Join to see).

...sounds like"this is your weapon, this is your gun, this is for fighting, this is for fun...."if you are old enough to know what that means...

CPT John Hermida

Sir, yes I am aware that in most battalions the S3 is a MAJ and my battalion because we are TRADOC is a CPT in that position. I was just giving another example of how you have a lower ranking Soldier doing the same job as the higher ranking one.

Doesn't matter what line. I've seen a captain serve in the major capacity down range. Seen a maj do a great job as a Bn cdr when one got relieved for a stupid thing one of his battle captains did. Doesn't matter who does it. If the next man up does a good job, promote him. Hell yes Csm are needed. It's a progression at every rank. Seems that people want to break apart te walls of the fox hole instead of improving it. In fact, they should make E10 for CSMs that are GO nominated positions.

MSG Cunningham, well my response here also vanished too. Makes me wonder if the cold war is still on. Agree that we can all learn something at school. I also believe that if you send an idiot to school the best you can hope for is a trained idiot. I got so tired of watching people jockey in the beginning to take over a class only to watch them crumble and fade into the background when they ran out of steam. I figured that anything you could do non-resident saved me from that and saved the Army lots of money. Sometimes I had to do both resident and nonresident. What I learned is we have some excellent training--but yes, imagine an army where everything you've attended got you smarter, better, faster, earlier in your career. Like when I taught martial arts. Other instructors wanted to string you along, make a lot of money testing you for belts, "season" you, and hold off "revealing" secrets of the temple until you attained what passes for Black Belt status. I figured people came to my class to learn the most practical stuff they needed to defend their ass everyday. Because most of them were there to learn to protect themselves and others not just to look cool in pajamas. Yes, there were expert tests, but you were moved up as fast as you could master the next lower skill, not slowed down with some budget or year group issue.
That said, I'll brag and tell you every enlisted promotion of mine was below zone. And I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I followed the advice of excellent leaders to improve myself every day, to seek responsibility, and to learn from my mistakes and move on. You can't mentor a soldier if you can't mentor yourself or allow yourself to be mentored. You also don't do yourself or the Army any good by accepting the status quo. You don't have to be the Lone Ranger Ninja Sniper to do that, and you will be misinterpreted for being ahead of the curve, even if only slightly. The point here is legacy planning. If you are good enough to be an NCO we need to groom you NOW to be a senior NCO. It's dumb to waste energy trying to slow you down when the tempo has speeded up. We need to identify--early-people who can think outside the box, at the schools and in their daily mission. You make distinguished grad and you get a plaque. Whoopee. I am using them now for firewood. If you are top grade you should be pulled in to a special program, special assignments. Same thing when the Army sent me to grad school. We spent a lot of money and time to "select" and then it's history. We fail in the critical leadership skill of knowing and using our resources--when is the last time an NCO or officer or first sgt or commander looked at your 201 File (or what passes for one these days) or had an entrance or exit interview with you, a school, or in your assignment? Similarly, we require a lot of resumes and interviews and education and such to get a job like mine and then--so what--we revert to that same behavior--it's up to you to show what you can do. I just want you to have that opportunity early and often. I don't want my taxpayer money spent on an average of 2 years in training and 1 or more years TDY or in PCS status rather than leading and bonding with soldiers to form an elite, efficient unit. Particularly when you are at the peak of your career and can make the most vital difference. That is not to say you shouldn't attend professional refresher training or real conferences like E9s have. That was one of the best things about being an E9--yet I want being a Senior NCO--and E7 to mean something other than higher pay and few more--or less-duties. When I am in charge we don't have meetings where no decisions are made or "training" on autopilot simply because it's "time" or because it's there. We have huddles. The staff has more time to staff and coordinate. Leaders have more time to lead. We encourage you to try your ideas, not just usurp them with mine. . If your school teaches you how to do just that, I will happily pay to send you at any rank.

MAJ Benoit, points taken sir, well stated. I completed OBC, Advanced Course, and other officer courses as a Lt and captain, was sent to grad school as an SFC, in addition to more than 5,000 hours of other Officer and NCO training including the SMAcademy. So you might say a lot of money was spent getting me smarter. You be the judge. I just might be the fellow who went through life meeting the minimum standard. But I figure I know a thing or two about Army schools. Yes, there is much to be said for gaining perspectives (some say that is why God invented Leave, and R&R) --hence my "huddle" vs long term school theory....for I believe budding leaders need more leadership opportunities more and before they need more schools. The ones you stated are fine, and for the officer corps the timing perhaps is fine, but do we really need a six month or nine month course on TDY? Agree that the Army has done a much better job with the officer corps...but trust me on this....I have seen legions of great colonels who attended the War College, did well there, did well before they got there, and didn't get a command. So they got out when they didn't make BG on the first look. Now, that's a lot of eagle feathers and green backs gone forever and not a great return on investment despite obligated time.
We can't all be Generals or Majors or Sgts Major, but we can sure as heck whittle down the herd earlier by offering more opportunity to spot talent. That's my main point. My secondary point is we just aren't that great a spotting talent. Ye Olde OER stickman did help cull the herd, but that pesky rating profile did it at the expense of limiting many a budding Ike, Patton, Clarke, and so on who didn't get enough face time or other opportunity. They are not that hard to notice when we leave the comfort of our desks. I loved LTG Honore when he was a Battalion Commander in 1st IDF, because he'd climb in your vehicle, he'd climb in a dumpster if he had to in order to inspire his people. If you had the privilege to experience his personal War College or NCO School, you didn't need a diploma. The fact that he kept giving you challenges was proof enough. We've effectively taken that responsibility away and handed it to a "school" with some instructors whom are there simply because they are on a joint domicile. It takes a strong leader to get it back. Third point: We are pretty good at selecting stellar GOs and E9s, and many are darned fine, smart people. I am forever impressed with several SACEURs and SMAs I have known and a fine man named LTG Chelberg. But unless you live in a VA bunker, you've seen at least one of each who made it through all the schools, all the hurdles, all the rubber stamps, but should have never been advanced past Lt. Col. or the inverse Major who attended all the schools and "shoulda been a contender" but was in the wrong "year group". So he got a pink slip (that's a piece of paper for those who don't know it is not an item of clothing).. I
have served with very fine men in very high grades with degrees who could not spell, or speak coherently, and several in high officer and enlisted grades who we finally discovered could not read or write English. If our schools and assignments and rating systems are working well, that should never ever happen. And it is more common than you may know. One last point, as recently as the 1990s, for Task Force Bravo (Honduras) and our Puerto Rican NG and USAR friends, we color coded ammo because many of could not read or write English? The FMs and other documents wer all in Spanish (not even dual language)...That was a finding from the FORSCOM exercise inspectors. On the other hand they were fine, motivated soldiers who spent more time building unit cohesion than they did in schools. They even had time to learn to trust each other because they had more stability than the rest of us.

MSG Carl Cunningham I wrote the question with the fear...I mean discipline...I would have if I was speaking to you face to face lol. I knew you were busy with school so I didn't tag you but I'm so glad you gave us insight into what yall are learning.

I kind of chuckled when I read that SGMs coming out of school will know PRT. As a SGT, it was extremely disappointing hearing a SFC tell me they didn't have the first clue about ALMS, e-Learning, ACCP and other Army education portals. Having a SFC (or higher) lead PRT was virtually non-existent. I was starting to believe that was SSG and below business. Good to hear our senior enlisted are being held accountable for their academics as well as new doctrine.

MSG Cunningham, how true and that is part of my point. Everyone can't get to school, so it's not an equal opportunity NCO...and agree on all your points--except for that late date PCS for nearly a year to the Academy. We had an Army for a long time and a long line of Sgts Major who did just fine without it. And in some ways I'd be a lot more perfect now in the Army than the maverick I was 15 years ago.