Are E-9s needed?

I hope none of the E-9's on RP will ever be on your promotion board. LOL.

That said, as a young (20 year old) 2nd Lt reporting for duty to Bn. Hq. in VN, I walked into the Bn. SGM's office and requested an audience with the Bn. Co. as was protocol at that time. The SGM came back out and told me to go on in. I left my cap (baseball at that time) on his desk. When I came back out, I couldn't find it (it was the Airborne BB Cap from Ranger Joe's). I asked the SGM if he had seen it and he pointed to the trash can and said "Is that it?". I said "I must had put it there accidentally" (I said I was young.....not stupid). Years later, I was a Captain commanding an Infantry Officer Basic Company at Ft. Benning and ran into him. He was the Senior SGM for the Infantry School. We had coffee and reminisced about old times including th cap incident.

To this day, I still don't know what they do but I do know not to leave anything on their desk that doesn't belong to them as you might not find it. I think their job is to lead by example and teach young soldiers (Lt's especially) the limits of their authority (it apparently doesn't include E-9's/SGM's).

I agree, to a point, CSM Heidke..he described his duties well - but it's everything else an E9 (sic) has to be that makes them valuable. I, as a 1SG, was assigned as a BN CSM as an interim while the first CSL settled and can speak from that POV as I comment.

While a CSM answers to only one person, the commander, he or she works for each and every Enlisted Soldier in that battalion. They are the Enlisted voice in times of advising the commander, the subject matter expert in all things technical, tactical and administrative, the coach, teacher and mentor of the senior NCOs and the shining example of standards for the juniors.

They are omnipresent and every Soldier should know the CSM, not by his or her picture on the chain of command board, but because they've been scuffed up or congratulated by him or her in the past week. The CSM must know the name of every Soldier in the command - Officer and Enlisted - know everything about them, about their families, the way they think, act and behave. After all, how can you speak for the Soldier if you don't know them?

They are the attitude of the battalion, the moral compass and the epitome of the Army values. When something illegal, immoral, unethical or unsafe is about to happen, the first thing to come to a Soldier's mind is the CSM. Not because of repercussions but because he or she has instilled the proper attitude.

So you see.. the CSM is much more than just the Senior Enlisted Advisor.... I believe a better question would be: Have many of the E-9s lost their focus?

Stay frosty....

Good Master Chiefs are essential to having checks and balances at sea. They are the enlisted sailor's last line of defense from the tyranny of the O-gangers! (A little satirical). In seriousness, they are the ones "allowed" for lack of a better term to question the big two officers on a ship and the enlisted input into policy. It is important that they are E-9s because there is no E-10, so it takes the fear of losing out on advancement out of the equations. Some (myself included) would argue that real military members would never fear for their career over doing the right thing, but it happens. Thinking of the most recent redacted report from USS COWPENS, the CMC absolutely had a direct line to the DESRON CMC that could have prevented the issues from growing nearly as large as they were. All the DHs also had lines (N3, N6, etc...) as well, but may have felt that fear for their career that in my experience the best MCPOs don't have, even the one's quickly risen to the ranks.

I respect and admire E-9s. I love the prestige and honor that it is. Perhaps those who say they are not needed do not get what it means. SSG V. Michelle Woods CSMs are awesome in my book. PV2 (Join to see)

We got a new BN Commander in Vicenza and he made us carry around a book of the imperatives we should all live by. One of the imperatives was "Vulgarity is a sign of indiscipline." While in formation for Battalion PT, CSM Harmon was on the podium with the BN Commander standing next to him, and in referring to that imperative said, "I've been in the Army too goddamn long to follow that one." For that reason alone, I think we need E-9s.

I have always thought that also. I am often told that I went to the dark side by becoming an officer or asked why I did it. I plan on making a career in the Army. You really have two career paths. Enlisted or Officer. W's are something like a wild card. At the pinnacle of one you are telling soldiers to wear the right Eye Pro or saying that those boots aren't in reg. At the pinnacle of the other you can be leading a BCT or even a DIV into combat.

I am not trying to degrade any CSM's as they do have their role but I couldn't see myself doing that. They seem to vary wildly. Just as officers. I suppose it would be up to your personal experience.

SSG V. Michelle Woods,

I will delay my response to your question until you have been a MSG for a few years, Then I will answer your question with a question,

Are SGM/ CSMs needed?

:)

I really like CSM David Heidke's response. In the Air Foce, the E-9 is the Chief Master Sergeant or Chief. My chief articulated very well the difference between an E-9 and a Chief. He essentially said Chief is all the things that CSM Heidke said. However, an E-9 is just someone collecting a paycheck. Not truly interested in the good discipline of the younger troops, or intervening when intervention is needed. He just wants to do his job and go home. He doesn't like taking into account that he may have to take that midnight call from a younger soldier (or airman, sailor, Marine, guardsman) who has gotten himself into a situation, or that younger troops's supervisor needs advise in helping him deal with that situation, and will do whatever it takes to avoid that call. This is the short summary of what he said, based on that, I would not want an E-9 to go to. I would want to go to a Chief Master Sergeant or a Sergeant Major.

CSMs are mentors and leaders, they have lots of experience and help Officers in better decision making toward the mission and the service men.

Well, lets give an answer to the original question: is the pay grade E-9 needed? No. We should all get the same salary for increasing levels of responsibility. How do you feel about that, getting the same pay as an E-5 for the hours you put in and the schools you attend? (that would be the average).

On to the more important question: is a ranking NCO (one that out ranks the sometimes rebellious 1SG) and an experienced hand at having heard every enlisted bitch/gripe/complaint/stupid idea as an adviser to the Battalion commander an asset? Yes. I have been both, and have advised several O-6s and a multitude of O-5s on how best to approach a task. I have been called on the carpet to answer for my commanders actions. (How could I let this happen?)

Is it important for the commander to have an enlisted "partner in command" to discuss the difficulties of command with? yes. Being in command is a lonely place, and I have seen it almost reduce great officers to tears. Without a partner that can be absolutely trusted for advice and yes, sometimes guidance, our commanders would not be as effective.