Posted on Sep 9, 2015
Are fake disabilities affecting other Veterans?
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So I met this guy the other day that is a gym buddy of our kids (20 and 17 year old). Obviously I don't know the entire story but he is 100% disabled for hearing and his back. The moment I met him I wanted to call bullshit. He walked in our home looking like a cartoon superhero and started talking about his workout. He does parkour, and extreme weight lifting. And has since he was in and now that he is out. That immediately raise a flag of bullshit beyond him explaining to us his philosophy on working out and people. He also started to go into his time as a leader in the Air Force...he got out as a E4. I quickly identified him as "that guy". So anyways.
I live in constant pain from protruding disc in my neck. It is intensified by any variety of things but mostly just doing shit. I have days where I literally just want to lay in bed with my percocet in hand and try and numb myself to feel a little normal again and other where it just feels like some one is punching me over and over. I am 50% broken. I don't claim to be more or less broken than I am and don't really care that much about how broken I am I just avoid doing stuff that makes it a percocet day.
So my questions are this;
People that may or may not be using the system are they really hurting the system?
Do you care if people fake disability to get more from a system?
How would you handle your kid around this guy who you know is a freaking idiot?
I live in constant pain from protruding disc in my neck. It is intensified by any variety of things but mostly just doing shit. I have days where I literally just want to lay in bed with my percocet in hand and try and numb myself to feel a little normal again and other where it just feels like some one is punching me over and over. I am 50% broken. I don't claim to be more or less broken than I am and don't really care that much about how broken I am I just avoid doing stuff that makes it a percocet day.
So my questions are this;
People that may or may not be using the system are they really hurting the system?
Do you care if people fake disability to get more from a system?
How would you handle your kid around this guy who you know is a freaking idiot?
Disability
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Scam
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 71
Your BS meter was certainly working well that day. And, if he truly is 100% disabled from service related injuries (if he even served), next time in the gym, get a video of the guy lifting the weights and carrying a normal conversation and report his lying cheating stealing ass to the VA and the police for fraud and theft.
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SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
MSG (Join to see) If this guy is -98 dB hearing he would not be able to hear an industrial fire alarm! Hard to fake that in front of an audiometer test!
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I wouldn't be so quick to judge him. There has to be a decent amount of evidence for the VA to rate him at 100%. It's not an easy rating to get. I have what's considered an 'invisible illness', which means no one can tell there's anything wrong from normal day to day interactions. I do weight lifting, because it's easier to do then cardio with my condition. He may also have behavioral/mental health disorders. If he really is 100% disabled, chances are he doesn't feel comfortable disclosing his full medical history to just anyone. He may also be on a variety of medications that allow him to seem physically healthy.
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SSG Michael Patton
MSG Timothy Daugherty, I disagree with you about him getting 100% not effecting anyone else. If he is truly disabled, he deserves it. If he is faking, he is taking money that could be utilized for truly disabled vets and medical care for those folks.
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PO1 Shannon Drosdak
I am going to say this, although the guy may tell you he's 100% for 2 issues most likely those are the only ones he wants to speak out loud about. Almost 15 years in and multiple surgeries while in the service put me at 100%, however how they rated me they took everything into consideration, head to toe. Which is what they do with all ratings inside and out. Mental, & physical are put into it. Like others who have posted I don't discuss everything. I don't want to look like a "walking accident." Do I think my 100% affects other Vets no, because I do not need certain things that are offered to me for my percentage at my percent. However I also didn't run to Social Security to start claiming disability money I could get ( even though the VA told me to) Am I currently working, no I'm in school and do volunteer service however There are certain things my body can't take (like standing for 8 hours) you never know what a person has been through and you cannot tell just by looking at them. I'm perfectly "normal" on the outside you would never know how much metal I have in my body to keep me together just by looking at me. He may not be like me, but I for one refuse to be "treated" like I have disabilities and know people look at you and treat you differently. I have already dealt with the nurses at the VA getting on me about using a cane or wearing a brace, complaining that my blood pressure is to high, and I need to take time to relax, blah blah blah. I refuse to let my rating define who I should be. Possibly, just maybe this guy is one of those. Even with only 4 years in, a lot can happen in 4 years and has to our military since this countries revolution for Freedom.
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MAJ Matthew Arnold
SGM (Join to see) - I really like you comment about "not broken, slightly worn". I've had 2 bulging disks L4 L5 for more than 30 years from jumping out of airplanes. It gets me down sometimes, but a push on thru. I don't really know why, but that "slightly worn" comment just rang thru to me, makes me smile, and gives me hope. Thanks.
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SGT Anthony Rossi
PO1 Pete Sikes - I do have a fair amount of knowledge on the topic. However, That doesn't make me an expert. I myself carry a10% disability mark, and my wife 20%. I don't realy agree with how they come to 100% in many cases. But for those that can't support themselves because of their injuries I Totaly support the 100% claim. But if a person can contribute and work they should be expected to.
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If he is 100% for hearing he ranks a XI / XI on testing. That means
1. 34% or less Word Recognition &
2. 98+ db Pure Tone hearing loss.
In other words, you would not be having a conversation with him.
So I call BS.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5;node=38:1.0.1.1.5#sg38.1.4_180_64_184.sg2
1. 34% or less Word Recognition &
2. 98+ db Pure Tone hearing loss.
In other words, you would not be having a conversation with him.
So I call BS.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5;node=38:1.0.1.1.5#sg38.1.4_180_64_184.sg2
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SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
SGT Scott Bell Check that link ... It really helps to know where the disability levels are .. sort of levels the playing field ya know.
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The current (overall) disability rating system was developed WWII era. The only way to get it 'updated' is for congress to make the changes to the U.S. Code. I posit that with the low number of veterans currently servicing in congress (nor having any desire to), that disability rating updating is not a priority. We (veterans) are a small part of the U.S. population and really aren't as vocal as other groups. Just my thoughts
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The amount of fraud in the VA system is directly comparable to the amount of normal fraud. About 5%. Yes, there will be jokers, but they will be rare (1 in 20).
However, and I need to stress this. The Dept of VA lawyers got LIT up by SCOTUS because their Appeal Overturn rate was better than 60%. The VA got it WRONG more than half the time initially, and that's in the wrong direction.
Now as to the specifics of your example, you also have to realize how "VA math" works.
100% disability for Hearing & Back, could mean something like: 80% Back + 50% Hearing, which will actually give you 90% (80% + 50% of the 20% remaining which gives you 90%)... however the VA "may" bump you to 100% if you have single ability above 70% and other abilities on top of it... The rules get super wonky.
Now it comes down to the actual questions.
People need to use the system. The more people that use the system, the better the system will be. The better it will be at finding the idiots. The better it will be at finding those in need.
I want the frauds to "try" and use the system. I want them to get caught. That's how we get a better system.
I would use the guy as an object lesson. I always tried to point out people who were important to my son. People who should be emulated. I also tried to point out those who should not be.
However, and I need to stress this. The Dept of VA lawyers got LIT up by SCOTUS because their Appeal Overturn rate was better than 60%. The VA got it WRONG more than half the time initially, and that's in the wrong direction.
Now as to the specifics of your example, you also have to realize how "VA math" works.
100% disability for Hearing & Back, could mean something like: 80% Back + 50% Hearing, which will actually give you 90% (80% + 50% of the 20% remaining which gives you 90%)... however the VA "may" bump you to 100% if you have single ability above 70% and other abilities on top of it... The rules get super wonky.
Now it comes down to the actual questions.
People need to use the system. The more people that use the system, the better the system will be. The better it will be at finding the idiots. The better it will be at finding those in need.
I want the frauds to "try" and use the system. I want them to get caught. That's how we get a better system.
I would use the guy as an object lesson. I always tried to point out people who were important to my son. People who should be emulated. I also tried to point out those who should not be.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Gus Laskaris - There was a VA OIG study a few years ago (2012-203 timeframe), that gave the 5% number. That compares directly with the FBI Fraud statistics.
Just because "perception" is higher doesn't make it so.
Just because "perception" is higher doesn't make it so.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Gus Laskaris - No, absolutely not. I don't trust anyone to investigate themselves, however when COMPARING those numbers with numbers provided by the FBI... and they turn up similar...
Assuming that people going to the VA for disability are "milking the system" just doesn't jive. I made no comments about SNAP & Welfare. I don't have their fraud rates.
As for what they do with people who are defrauding the system, I do know the SS system actively prosecutes, and I have seen cases of the VA prosecuting as well. We see various news reports of them on this site quite often. Those are the high profile ones though. There is action being taken.
Assuming that people going to the VA for disability are "milking the system" just doesn't jive. I made no comments about SNAP & Welfare. I don't have their fraud rates.
As for what they do with people who are defrauding the system, I do know the SS system actively prosecutes, and I have seen cases of the VA prosecuting as well. We see various news reports of them on this site quite often. Those are the high profile ones though. There is action being taken.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSgt Liam Babington - Hell, real claims don't make it through most of the time.
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Like you, I have bad days and worse days. I am fused from L2 through to S1, so my entire lower spine cannot move. I had 4 back surgeries in 2 years and now the surgeon wants to operate on my neck! The people "faking it" are not my concern, I have enough to worry about without adding to it. If the relationship with a suspected faker is toxic, cut him loose! Stress adds to my pain, so I try to avoid those things that cause me stress. Just my two-cents!
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You know there are going to be some, it's a shame for them to back the claims system up for those that have legitimate disabilities. I also think the way disabilities are rated needs to be reevaluated. An example I have questions about is Rep. Tammy Duckworth. Duckworth has a VA disability rating of 20 percent, despite having had both her legs blown off and losing significant use of her right arm. Can anyone explain why her rating is so low?
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PVT Robert Gresham
Sgt Gus Laskaris - I'l take one last shot at this, because if you don't understand what 90% of the comments on this post addressed to you are trying to say, then I will try to sum it up.
Is it a perfect system? NO !! Do some people get over on the system? Yes !! Did you ever find anything in the Government that someone didn't get over on? It doesn't make it right, but it is the exception and not the rule.
Do you really think you are going to pay less taxes if they take away my disability? Do you think you would feel the same about the VA system if you had lost your legs, or suffered a spinal, or traumatic brain injury? You can argue it up down and left and right, but the facts are that there are people out there that have served their country, and have been badly injured doing so. The VA disability program is in place for that reason.
You seem to be angry because you were NOT injured badly enough to have to apply to the VA for disability. Trust me, you should thank God everyday that you don't have to get up and take this medication, and that you don't have to go to physical therapy twice a week, that you don't have many operations behind you, and more still to come. Some of us live with that.
We will most likely never come to an understanding, so these are my final words on this subject. You are a very lucky Marine !! I'm sorry that you are saddled with the costs of the treatment for my injuries. If I had a choice it never would have happened. I hope that you can forgive me.
Is it a perfect system? NO !! Do some people get over on the system? Yes !! Did you ever find anything in the Government that someone didn't get over on? It doesn't make it right, but it is the exception and not the rule.
Do you really think you are going to pay less taxes if they take away my disability? Do you think you would feel the same about the VA system if you had lost your legs, or suffered a spinal, or traumatic brain injury? You can argue it up down and left and right, but the facts are that there are people out there that have served their country, and have been badly injured doing so. The VA disability program is in place for that reason.
You seem to be angry because you were NOT injured badly enough to have to apply to the VA for disability. Trust me, you should thank God everyday that you don't have to get up and take this medication, and that you don't have to go to physical therapy twice a week, that you don't have many operations behind you, and more still to come. Some of us live with that.
We will most likely never come to an understanding, so these are my final words on this subject. You are a very lucky Marine !! I'm sorry that you are saddled with the costs of the treatment for my injuries. If I had a choice it never would have happened. I hope that you can forgive me.
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PVT Robert Gresham
Sgt Gus Laskaris - I'll say this, if you are looking for stupid you really don't have to look much further than the VA in many cases. I also agree with you that spending in the US is out of control, but the place to start your rally is against the businesses and contractors who bid millions for jobs that could be done for a lot less. If you think Vets are taking a big piece of the pie just look at some of the aircraft the US is using right now. Just one plane at $98 million to $159 million could take care of more than 2000 Vets, at 100%, for a whole year. Everyone knows that the aircraft could be made for less, but the companies keep jacking up the price and the government says, "Sure, what's another billion dollars?" There are so many other places to take out your anger at the system. Again, I am glad that you are able to represent the productive class, it brings an interesting perspective to the discussion even though I, and many others, might not agree with everything you have to say.
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FN George Woodruff
Rep. Duckworth's rating should be 100 percent permanent and total plus extra benefits for the loss of her legs and partial use of left arm. Permanent and total means she can hold gainful employment without penalty if she is able to do so in one form or another. Most everyone...no mater how badly disabled...can do something of value. I have been rated 100 percent P & T since 1963 and served as Legislative Officer for the DAV, Dept. of Florida. Except for expenses it was an unpaid position but I could have worked even if it wasn't. In addition she should be eligible for some type of retirement pay since her injuries were sustained in combat. Whoever told you she is only rated at 20 percent is pulling your leg.
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SFC (Join to see)
Where is Sgt Gus Laskaris's comments? Were his comments deleted? Was he banned? Despite being a pompous A-Hole, I'm going to miss the antagonist of Rallypoint.
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I hear you, Sergeant. Even tho is makes us mad as hell, suspecting that he might be faking, we don't know what's inside his head. I'm 60% broken myself, but no missing limbs. I do have knee and back injuries, but do not take any "hard" meds for them, just live with the constant pain - most of my injuries are psychological. My point is, we shouldn't try to "one-up" each other about our disabilities. Living in constant pain is no fun. Take care.
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I personally think that we are entitled to our disability, but dislike the whole "go run 5 mile before your physical and no pain killer the week before". I get what I deserve but no more.
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Go get him, big daddy! This is the place to throw the BS flag. On a separate note, I had that same neck issue repaired and it was the most successful surgery I have received up to date. Shoot me a PM if you want. Maybe we can get you admitted into the zipper neck clan.
http://www.va.gov/oig/hotline/default.asp
http://www.va.gov/oig/hotline/default.asp
VA OIG Hotline Homepage
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