Posted on Sep 20, 2016
Are grooming standards in the military outdated and without purpose?
58.3K
363
162
28
28
0
Responses: 66
Can't tell you how many times I saw a CSM go ape crazy after seeing a route clearance patrol come in after three days outside the wire trying to get hot chow with beard stubble before the DFAC Closed. Certainly feel there is massive room for improvement especially in the combat environment. Discipline in appearance does not equal combat effectiveness or combat discipline, in fact in many instances perfectly capable soldiers are discounted due to their gruffness or lack of administrative skills.
(36)
(0)
(0)
(0)
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Richard Reavis - It is funny Scrubs are the work uniform of some the most highly trained professionals on the planet.
I have see too many bright and sparkly Blue Falcons in my life to confuse appearance and competence, Competence is what determines if the mission gets done apperance has no effect on it either way.
I I have to trust someone with my life his skills and brains matter not how recently he shaved or location of her tattoos.
I have see too many bright and sparkly Blue Falcons in my life to confuse appearance and competence, Competence is what determines if the mission gets done apperance has no effect on it either way.
I I have to trust someone with my life his skills and brains matter not how recently he shaved or location of her tattoos.
(1)
(0)
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
1SG Jon Weiss - The US miltart managed to fight until after WWI without having a appearance fetish, why does it need to have one now? You have not give a reason for the standards to exist in their current form.
(0)
(0)
SGM Harvey Boone
In garrison a soldier needs to have a neat appearance however if my guys have been out in the bush You had better leave them alone until they have had some food, and a good bath and some rest. Most of those raising hell have never been brush wadeing.
(2)
(0)
This is a complicated question because there are many factors to consider for why relaxed grooming standards can be necessary. To start off with, you can't shed a high and tight over night, nor can you grow a beard over night. Longer hair distances the impression that someone could be a service member in environments where a service member is looking to maintain a low profile. Beards sometimes are called for for cultural reasons, and they also can defeat many types of facial recognition technology (also the reason why some service members are encouraged to wear sunglasses in media heavy environments).
That said, I've seen plenty of cases where relaxed grooming standards are used when they are completely unnecessary. There is the mistaken idea that anytime you deploy to a predominantly Muslim country you must have a beard. The reality is that in many Muslim countries, the only people wearing huge beards are radical Islamist and jihadis. Long shaggy hair is also seen as inappropriate because in many countries, it is associated with being unkept and unprofessional.
In almost any environment, visible tattoos are a bad idea for more reasons than I have time to get into. I find it idiotic that some guys try to justify relaxed grooming standards to maintain a low profile while they have tattoos up their neck and down to their wrists (I'm looking at you MARSOC).
However to be perfectly honest, a lot of reasons why the military went to clean shaven and high and tights are outdated. Beards don't prevent you from sealing a gas mask. While skin conditions and parasites can be an issue, it is nowhere near what was in past decades because of improvements to personal hygiene products.
I do think that there should be a little more give in a combat environment in terms of grooming based on the situation. A patrol coming in from a 3 day recon mission shouldn't have shaving as a top priority before they can get a hot meal. Rushing shaving when you are dirty and using reclaimed water can actually increase the chances of infection. Still, the average service member doesn't need to run around looking like a ZZ Top knockoff.
That said, I've seen plenty of cases where relaxed grooming standards are used when they are completely unnecessary. There is the mistaken idea that anytime you deploy to a predominantly Muslim country you must have a beard. The reality is that in many Muslim countries, the only people wearing huge beards are radical Islamist and jihadis. Long shaggy hair is also seen as inappropriate because in many countries, it is associated with being unkept and unprofessional.
In almost any environment, visible tattoos are a bad idea for more reasons than I have time to get into. I find it idiotic that some guys try to justify relaxed grooming standards to maintain a low profile while they have tattoos up their neck and down to their wrists (I'm looking at you MARSOC).
However to be perfectly honest, a lot of reasons why the military went to clean shaven and high and tights are outdated. Beards don't prevent you from sealing a gas mask. While skin conditions and parasites can be an issue, it is nowhere near what was in past decades because of improvements to personal hygiene products.
I do think that there should be a little more give in a combat environment in terms of grooming based on the situation. A patrol coming in from a 3 day recon mission shouldn't have shaving as a top priority before they can get a hot meal. Rushing shaving when you are dirty and using reclaimed water can actually increase the chances of infection. Still, the average service member doesn't need to run around looking like a ZZ Top knockoff.
(20)
(0)
SSgt Michael Cox
Even as an AFSOC member I would could see the guys that stay behind the wire shave but the Teams that are out of the wire doing their jobs shouldn't have to worry about shaving to get chow. Totally agree with the SFC (Anonymous).
(2)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
COL Lee Flemming - Resident SOF expert? That is a bit of s stretch. I just spend a lot of my time TDY at a Holiday Inn Express.
(3)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
If there is to be a change in grooming standards, there should be a circumstance associated with the standards. In CONUS the average soldier should look professional. In any other environment lax grooming standards should be dependent on the mission. That is to say, would it be beneficial to have long hair and a beard in a given situation?
(1)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
1SG Jon Weiss - Conventional forces being allowed to have some degree of relaxed grooming standards in the field or while actively patrolling has absolutely nothing to do with "blending in". It is actually a health issue or a cultural issue. It is a health issue because shaving is actually discouraged during extreme cold weather operations or high altitude operations because facial hair can help protect exposed skin. Shaving while on patrol also gives bacteria a better chance to penetrate deep into the tissue. It is a cultural issue because in some areas of the world, beards (Afghans) or big mustaches (Kurds) are associated with authority and/or wisdom and you are better received by locals as a leader because not only do you look like you are in charge, you are participating in their culture. This is why there is a huge shift in US doctrine that includes using culture as a weapon to gain influence over or to deny access to a population. A lack of cultural competency by conventional forces has caused huge setbacks in Iraq and Afghanistan.
(0)
(0)
The combat beards are to help folks be accepted by the locals in the mid east. I never figured out the purpose for running around half necked though. Sun burn sucks and is a vector for infections. I always had a flat top and tight taper to help keep critters from latching on.
(15)
(0)
MSG Dan Castaneda
You are absolutely correct regarding the beards. However, only those that associate with the local population on daily basis should have them. They should not be allowed simply because you are deployed sitting at Bagram.
(4)
(0)
CSM Richard StCyr
MSG Dan Castaneda - Roger, I was a Combat Heavy Engineer, no beards allowed in our ranks and our interaction with the populace was generally move or get bulldozed, shot, or both. Route sanitization and crater repair didn't require much civic interaction.
(2)
(0)
CPL Jared Baker
Sometimes you just gotta get naked and go savage Sergeant Major.... you know to show dominance!
(1)
(0)
CSM Richard StCyr
CPL Jared Baker - Aw hell, had a drill sergeant caught smoking the piss out of a troop and going absolutely spastic on Utube, asked him what he was thinking..... "I was just instilling dominance" was the reply.
But yeah raining neked savagery and dominance on the enemy is a good thing. What's the Spirit of the bayonet....blood, red blood!
But yeah raining neked savagery and dominance on the enemy is a good thing. What's the Spirit of the bayonet....blood, red blood!
(0)
(0)
I am a big fan of differentiating standards between garrison and deployment. In a deployment scenario where military members are away from barracks/dorms/home for extended periods of time, it makes sense to relax grooming standards (beards, mustaches, hair). In garrison, I am okay with the current grooming standards, since we are a professional military and we should uphold a higher standard. As far as tattoos are concerned, I would leave that up to each service as to what image that service wants to portray.
Are the standards outdated and without purpose? I would not go that far. If I were king, I would definitely modify the standards for all deployed personnel. I certainly did not like walking between tents or trailers just to shave with cold water, but there needs to be some kind of standard to prevent someone from avoiding the shower for six months. Sometimes the silly grooming standards serve to remind military members to take care of themselves daily, even in austere conditions.
Are the standards outdated and without purpose? I would not go that far. If I were king, I would definitely modify the standards for all deployed personnel. I certainly did not like walking between tents or trailers just to shave with cold water, but there needs to be some kind of standard to prevent someone from avoiding the shower for six months. Sometimes the silly grooming standards serve to remind military members to take care of themselves daily, even in austere conditions.
(12)
(0)
Maj Walter Kilar
PO3 Barry C - In the Air Force, I will say that it can be considered a tradition among in some career fields (I can personally attest to aircraft maintenance) to shave our heads on deployments, extended night shifts, or extended exercises.
(1)
(0)
PO1 Eric Justice
One of the things that Naval commands try to beat into you before you're allowed to leave the ship on a port call is, "Make yourself fit in and try not to stand out as a US Navy sailor, but make sure you're clean shaven before you leave my quarterdeck!!" Really? We just pulled into Muscat after patrolling around oil platforms for 2 months , you want me to try and blend in with the locals, but I need to be clean shaven. The fuck! Really?
(2)
(0)
yes , I think its time to stop this madness about shaving LOL its getting old. Im pretty sure that if needed we can shave it all off if we need to put on our pro masks
(7)
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
SFC (Join to see) - most NATO nations do not have the facial hair standard that we do...
(1)
(0)
(1)
(0)
SGT Alan Dike
Shave it off if you have to don your promask? Wish I had that type of notice. When we deployed to Iraq in Feb 02, SOP for our post was to head to bunkers, mask, and wait for further instructions any time the air raid fired up. Every 1-2 hours once they actually crossed the berm (I was rear d .. just signal, not high speed invaders). Once pretty early on, we actually had a chem alarm go off. Shelter in place if you were under cover and mask up.
(1)
(0)
Relaxed grooming standards in the combat zone or on mission have depended on the mission in the past. Try maintaining a low profile wandering around in a Middle Eastern city or countryside clean shaven and with a high and tight. Having lived in that environment I know that getting acceptance and communication with the locals is difficult when one goes in looking like an Amrika'i. Given that, I sometimes wonder why I see operators with the appearance pictured above. Looking like Soldiers, American Soldiers, who care enough about the people who they are working with that they have studied their local tradition, culture and language is much more impressive than bare arms and beards.
(7)
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
CPT Jim Schwebach I never had a problem, but who knows how affective I may have been with a beard...!
(0)
(0)
I hate to shave. Scraping one's face every day is a chore. It's infinitely less fun with cold water (or no water), especially when you have a beard like copper wire (like mine). I see no problem with a closely cropped beard (one that an adversary can't grab).
(6)
(0)
COL Lee Flemming
Had not considered the hand to hand aspect of a long beard! Better be a good fighter!!
(1)
(0)
When there is time and in a safe environment grooming is still the soldier responsibility.
(6)
(0)
MSG Floyd Williams
COL Lee Flemming - Shave, haircut, bathe or bird bath whatever water is available, use the buddy system to check each other for ticks, fleas, or any other thing that shouldn't be attached to your flesh.
(4)
(0)
I don't believe grooming standards are outdated. I understand every culture is different and some cultures for instance a beard is a sign of maturity. The problem is that people don't see the purpose behind the decisions.
Anyone who has seen women fight knows why to keep your hair short. If you can get your fingers in their hair, you now have control of their movements. The same thing can be said about beards. A fistful of hair can bring a person's face down to meet my knee. Tattoos are a cultural thing. We are a global force and we deal with a lot of different cultures. We can't have possible peace talks be disrupted because LCpl Schmuckatelli has an offensive tattoo in a visible location.
Discipline, cohesion, and uniformity are all important and the grooming standards are a part of this. I think it'd be badass if we could all grow beards and get fully tattooed and look like hardcore warriors. But you have to look at it from a practical point of view. Yes we are warriors, but we must be just as equal in our long range tactics as we are in close combat tactics as we are in our diplomatic approach.
To give an enemy an advantage over us is to fail.
Anyone who has seen women fight knows why to keep your hair short. If you can get your fingers in their hair, you now have control of their movements. The same thing can be said about beards. A fistful of hair can bring a person's face down to meet my knee. Tattoos are a cultural thing. We are a global force and we deal with a lot of different cultures. We can't have possible peace talks be disrupted because LCpl Schmuckatelli has an offensive tattoo in a visible location.
Discipline, cohesion, and uniformity are all important and the grooming standards are a part of this. I think it'd be badass if we could all grow beards and get fully tattooed and look like hardcore warriors. But you have to look at it from a practical point of view. Yes we are warriors, but we must be just as equal in our long range tactics as we are in close combat tactics as we are in our diplomatic approach.
To give an enemy an advantage over us is to fail.
(5)
(0)
So many well thought out responses! I agree wholeheartedly that 'Command discretion' while using common sense is not only the best answer for this question but perhaps a mantra to be used for most controversial, situation based questions. The unit commander of an operational unit should have the autonomy to modify a basic standard if they decide it will benefit overall mission success. On the flip side of that coin, I believe that the commander of troops that are not conducting operations has a duty to maintain the highest basic military standards in the interest of good order and discipline. During most military indoctrination training they shave your head, take away your civilian clothes, take away most contact with the outside world, make you talk differently, walk differently. Why? To make you into a part of that organization. When you graduate you have 2 names on your uniform: the one you were born with and the one you earned. Enforcing the basic military standards, helps maintain good order and discipline because if you hammer down on the little stuff people will think twice about breaking more important rules. More importantly though it reminds us that we are part of something greater than ourselves it reminds us of that other name that we earned.
(4)
(0)
Read This Next


Discipline
Deployment
Grooming Standards
