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Recent comments by Film makers Michael Moore and Seth Rogen have rattled this timeless hornets nest.
For my own position, warriors are warriors regardless of their job. Our job are to kill or support those that do. War sucks, at best.
The above mentioned men have themselves been called cowards for stating their positions. I counter that they are not cowards for standing up for their beliefs.
Thoughts and opinions on the subject.
For my own position, warriors are warriors regardless of their job. Our job are to kill or support those that do. War sucks, at best.
The above mentioned men have themselves been called cowards for stating their positions. I counter that they are not cowards for standing up for their beliefs.
Thoughts and opinions on the subject.
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 27
Here is a short list of things I would rather do than allow Michael Moore to guide my morality:
-Bathe in Hydrochloric acid.
-Pull an abscessed tooth from an un-anesthetized crocodile.
-Dive headfirst from the Sears Tower using only a thumbtack as a landing pad.
-Date Rosie O'Donnell
Get the picture?
-Bathe in Hydrochloric acid.
-Pull an abscessed tooth from an un-anesthetized crocodile.
-Dive headfirst from the Sears Tower using only a thumbtack as a landing pad.
-Date Rosie O'Donnell
Get the picture?
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So I'm going to go out on a limb here, and at the risk of getting down votes, and point out that Seth Rogen did not call Chris Kyle a "coward", it was Michael Moore who said that, and then poorly back-pedaled saying he never mentioned Kyle by name. Moore, in the words of Trey Parker and Matt Stone, is a giant socialist weasel. However, I am going to stand up and say that I can see Rogen's point. He said that "American Sniper" a movie about a revered sniper with a high kill count 'reminded' him of a scene in "Inglorious Basterds" that was similar. With all of the hero worship going on these days it is a dangerous precedent to assume that a hero is beyond reproach simply for being a hero. Especially one who has been found guilty of lying in court and most likely lied about 2 other incidents. (Not that it happened but if you really support him gunning down looters, American citizens, in New Orleans we have a different problem.)
Sure, Michael Moore's words are cowardly but the more we all talk about it the more he gets what he wants, relevance. I however do not think that Seth Rogen deserves to be lumped in with that lump of lard. He made an honest observation and everyone's knee-jerk reaction is to freak out that he must be anti-American. Though "American Sniper" may not have been commissioned by the government it still comes across as 'Murc'n propaganda, even if it is an accurate portrayal of Kyle's exploits and what it is like to go to war.
Sure, Michael Moore's words are cowardly but the more we all talk about it the more he gets what he wants, relevance. I however do not think that Seth Rogen deserves to be lumped in with that lump of lard. He made an honest observation and everyone's knee-jerk reaction is to freak out that he must be anti-American. Though "American Sniper" may not have been commissioned by the government it still comes across as 'Murc'n propaganda, even if it is an accurate portrayal of Kyle's exploits and what it is like to go to war.
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SGT James Elphick
I am actually anti-Ventura, and would love if he got punched in the face, but the facts and a court ruling seem to support his side of the story. But beyond that story there is the one of Kyle supposedly shooting 2 car-jackers that cannot be corroborated and, one that I mentioned, that he was killing American citizens in New Orleans which not only can it not be corroborated if it was true he should be in prison. My issue is that because he was a great soldier/sniper (that can be corroborated) that we forget about his faults and even worse that because of this he, and his story, are somehow beyond reproach and that any criticism or difference of opinion is somehow akin to treason or anti-Americanism.
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From what I know of the profession (which admittedly is not a whole hell of a lot. I was cyrpto geek after all) Snipers and their spotters rely on range and stealth because, if their location is discovered, they could get overrun pretty fast. To me, that's not cowardice, that's being smart.
Also, cowardly compared to what? Guys who plant IEDs? Men who behead unarmed journalists? Men who cut of the clitoris of young women so they won't feel pleasure during sex and not be tempted to cheat on their husband/owner? Men who would hide behind women and children in front of military targets to protect them from bombings. Men who would use those same women and children as suicide bombers? You get the idea.
Look, I get it. Soft men who make films don't like the reality of war. It sickens them, it frightens them and that's okay. That's why we have an all volunteer force. We don't like it either but, we do the things they can't imagine doing so they don't have to. All I ask is that they remember what the other side actually does and don't judge us for doing the job you wouldn't or couldn't do yourself.
Also, cowardly compared to what? Guys who plant IEDs? Men who behead unarmed journalists? Men who cut of the clitoris of young women so they won't feel pleasure during sex and not be tempted to cheat on their husband/owner? Men who would hide behind women and children in front of military targets to protect them from bombings. Men who would use those same women and children as suicide bombers? You get the idea.
Look, I get it. Soft men who make films don't like the reality of war. It sickens them, it frightens them and that's okay. That's why we have an all volunteer force. We don't like it either but, we do the things they can't imagine doing so they don't have to. All I ask is that they remember what the other side actually does and don't judge us for doing the job you wouldn't or couldn't do yourself.
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- Are snipers cowardly? Absolutely not.
- Love hearing from Hollywood "elites" like Michael Moore and Seth Rogen who have no clue what they are talking about including but not limited to lack of education, information, and experience.
- Are Moore and Rogen cowards? From the perspective of denigrating the reputation of a deceased Soldier rather than engaging when he was alive, absolutely cowards. From the perspective of standing up for their beliefs, not cowards but definitely idiots since I am sure they both lack the ability to have an educated an informed dialogue with a person who disagrees with them and can back up their comments with concrete examples, historical perspective, and a basic understanding of how to defend a nation.
- Great response by Dakota Meyer (Medal of Honor receipient) on social media.
- Assumption on my part but I think both Moore and Rogen are anti war which is fine but they seem to lack the ability to separate the war from the warrior. This is despite their recent efforts to walk back their initial comments.
- Love hearing from Hollywood "elites" like Michael Moore and Seth Rogen who have no clue what they are talking about including but not limited to lack of education, information, and experience.
- Are Moore and Rogen cowards? From the perspective of denigrating the reputation of a deceased Soldier rather than engaging when he was alive, absolutely cowards. From the perspective of standing up for their beliefs, not cowards but definitely idiots since I am sure they both lack the ability to have an educated an informed dialogue with a person who disagrees with them and can back up their comments with concrete examples, historical perspective, and a basic understanding of how to defend a nation.
- Great response by Dakota Meyer (Medal of Honor receipient) on social media.
- Assumption on my part but I think both Moore and Rogen are anti war which is fine but they seem to lack the ability to separate the war from the warrior. This is despite their recent efforts to walk back their initial comments.
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SPC Stephen Gerard
Sir, Seth Rogen's were subjectively offensive, at best, and appear to be taken out of context (his comment had been meant to be a compliment). Hyper critical media followers were/are grabbing for everything to trash a celebrity who comments on anything related to the military. That other douche bag, though, ran his cumdumpster intentionally and was clearly begging for a pair of .308 tracers to find his dome. Nothing subjective about it.
I've tried to caution people away from jumping on the negative Nancy bandwagon and to attempt to let independent thought bloom, but I haven't been very successful (it's the internet, ya' know?).
Stephen Gerard
I've tried to caution people away from jumping on the negative Nancy bandwagon and to attempt to let independent thought bloom, but I haven't been very successful (it's the internet, ya' know?).
Stephen Gerard
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They may not get as up close and personal as a door kicker, but think about their job...
Go out in a team of 2 to 5, inside enemy territory, and either gather intel or take out a target, and try not to get killed.
Seems pretty hard core to me.
Go out in a team of 2 to 5, inside enemy territory, and either gather intel or take out a target, and try not to get killed.
Seems pretty hard core to me.
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Personally I think Jesse Ventura (Jesse Vulture) is the biggest coward for sueing Chris Kyle's widow. That however is a different debate,
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Yes... But no. One could argue that in the overall scheme of things, that employing snipers is cowardly, but sorry no, actually being a sniper is by no means cowardly, and in the way war is fought, a well placed sniper can prevent a ton of collateral damage and adds a surgical element that is absolutely required. If anything is cowardly, it is using a nuclear weapon on a city to kill ten people. Snipers do the exact opposite of that... Onto these two celebs, look, if you are really offended by what Rogen tweeted, c'mon. Just c'mon. He was making a joke, it wasn't his intention to compare the film to nazi propaganda- I know you gents MUST have heard a joke before, especially one that with the wrong crowd listening could have been taken way, way the hell out of context. All it takes is some thick skin and a sense of humor. And with Moore's comment- you seem surprised that the guy who belittled and harassed an elderly man with Alzheimer's says something that is going to piss off vets. Michael Moore is basically your overweight sister in law that is begging for attention no matter what the cost. Don't encourage. So to answer the question, no, snipers aren't cowardly, Micheal Moore is Stupid, people shocked by what he said must not know who he is, and Seth Rogen needs a better audience (I personally thought it was funny, not haha funny but short snicker funny). On a bright note, the world is still spinning, I can put food on the table, have a six pack, and gas is cheap.
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PO2 Kevin LaCroix No snipers are not cowards. I would say quite the opposite. I think it takes guts to carry out an order to kill someone on orders and then to live with that and compartmentalize that and what not mentally and emotionally. I think it takes a certain intestinal fortitude and strength of character. No one is perfect, war is hell as they say. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Especially Michael Moore and Seth Rogen.
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I'd sure like to see either of these fat tubs of goo say that to a snipers face. The ensuing reaction would be hilarious!
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As far as I know Moore and Rogan have never served in the Armed Forces so I don't take their opinions about courage seriously. however, as a consumer of entertainment I think they should work a little harder on their craft because their films suck!
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