Posted on Feb 14, 2017
Are square-toed Oxford shoes technically authorized?
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Saw a lot of debate on US Army WTF Moments over this photo, but as usual, healthy debate was ruined by memes. Obviously, his pants are ill-fitting, but the square-toes is what I'm curious about.
Posted in these groups: 
Dress Uniform
DA Pam 670-1
Dress Uniform DA Pam 670-1
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 12
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_shoe
The answer is in the definition of "Oxford Shoe". Although not stated, Oxfords have a toe cap. The shoe above does not. This is some deep research!
The answer is in the definition of "Oxford Shoe". Although not stated, Oxfords have a toe cap. The shoe above does not. This is some deep research!
An Oxford shoe is characterized by shoelace eyelets tabs that are attached under the vamp,[1] a feature termed "closed lacing".[2] This contrasts with Derbys, or Blüchers, which have shoelace eyelets attached to the top of the vamp. Originally, Oxfords were plain, formal shoes, made of leather but they evolved into a range of styles suitable for both formal, uniform, and casual wear. Based on function and the dictates of fashion, Oxfords are...
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SPC (Join to see)
I'm starting to think a book should be written that can be applied to the AR and PAM because every so often there's a question like this that an SM like yourself helps find the answer to MSG.
That or we need to re-write the regulation to make clear and perfect sense.
That or we need to re-write the regulation to make clear and perfect sense.
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Good question as DA Pam 670-1 does not designate rounded, pointed, or squared.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yeah, that's where I was lost. They have to be Oxford, but Oxford shoes are not defined by the toe.
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As a 1SG I would not allow it as it violates the concept of uniformity. I'm fairly sure my CSM would back me up on that, we aren't about special snowflakes in the military.
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CW4 Keith Dolliver
I agree that the square toe is not authorized, but I don't agree with your rationale because "it violates the concept of uniformity". There are lots of things in the reg that allow for variation; e.g. Boots, PT shoes, white button-down shirt (for blues), just to name a few. We need to make decisions and enforce policy based on the regulations not just because it's something we're unfamiliar with and haven't seen before.
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The regulation is vague but it does state that the only authorized oxford shoes are the clothing bag issue ones and that is the only approved specification and pattern.
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SGT (Join to see)
I must have read over that part. I wonder why that is specified in the regulation if they only allow clothing bag issue ones.
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since I've been in navy, marines and army its been the oxfords, rounded toe, nothing in the regs suggest anything else
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The DA PAM simply states "c. Shoes, oxford, black, male.
(1) Type. The shoes are clothing bag issue items.
(2) Description.
(a) The shoes are made from an approved specification or pattern, or from a similar commercial design and are
made of leather, poromeric, or patent leather. The shoe is dress tie-oxford style, with at least three eyelets, and a closed
toe and heel. The shoe is plain, with no design in the shoe material.
(b) As an option, commanders may authorize males to wear an ankle-high boot, similar to a jodhpurs (riding) or
riding boot. If worn, the boot must be black, plain, without straps or buckles, with a noncontrasting heel and sole, and a
heel no higher than 2 inches. An inconspicuously placed zipper is authorized.
(3) How worn. The oxford shoes are authorized for wear with service, dress, mess, evening mess, hospital duty, and
food service uniforms."
From what I saw there was no specific mention of rounded or squared.
(1) Type. The shoes are clothing bag issue items.
(2) Description.
(a) The shoes are made from an approved specification or pattern, or from a similar commercial design and are
made of leather, poromeric, or patent leather. The shoe is dress tie-oxford style, with at least three eyelets, and a closed
toe and heel. The shoe is plain, with no design in the shoe material.
(b) As an option, commanders may authorize males to wear an ankle-high boot, similar to a jodhpurs (riding) or
riding boot. If worn, the boot must be black, plain, without straps or buckles, with a noncontrasting heel and sole, and a
heel no higher than 2 inches. An inconspicuously placed zipper is authorized.
(3) How worn. The oxford shoes are authorized for wear with service, dress, mess, evening mess, hospital duty, and
food service uniforms."
From what I saw there was no specific mention of rounded or squared.
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https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/oxford-shoes-guide/
Another link about Oxford Shoes. This is an interesting discussion, but I never really wanted to learn this much about shoes!
Another link about Oxford Shoes. This is an interesting discussion, but I never really wanted to learn this much about shoes!
Oxford Shoes Guide - How To Wear Oxfords, How To Buy & What To Avoid — Gentleman's Gazette
Learn all about Oxford Shoes, including the Definition, the History, Style suggestions, How to Combine it & How to Buy Guide.
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From what I read in DA Pam 670-1 and AR670-1 the ones in the picture are not authorized because they have stitching across and along the top and the reg says they must be plain with no design in the leather. Also all the uniform depictions in the reg show a round toed shoe which by inference would lead me to interpret the intent of the reg to be plain round toed oxfords.
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This is what the "New Army" is coming to-- questioning EVERY regulation in order to get around it, so the special snowflake can do whatever s/he wants. One of the many reasons I am getting out...
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IAW (Air Force) AFI 36-2903, Low quarter Oxford style shoes must be lace up an with a plain rounded cap toe. The Army Regulation, AR 670-1 states that the shoes are a bag issue item, which is round toe. The Army Regulation however doesn't specifically refer to a requirement in writing for a round toe. It would seem however, in My opinion, if the issue item is round toe them a substitute should not venture from that design for any reason. We don't get to pick and choose what We wear for or with our uniforms including footwear or waiver from the issued style in any way and remain properly uniformed in My view.
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