Posted on Jul 2, 2016
SGT Training Nco
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I have no issues with transgenders entering the military. I think standards are there for a reason. Meet the standards and you are good to go. But what's to stop every male from saying he is a female to max out the PT test? Are there points in the military that require you to be a specific sex and it would backfire? Otherwise, males who are failing or borderline on the PT test might start doing really well as a woman.
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CPT Jack Durish
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Edited >1 y ago
Personally, I judge people by their performance. We can guess how a female-trans-male might struggle with lack of upper body strength or some other "prejudice". However, the proof is in the pudding. I well-remember the "bolo" squad, men who simply lacked physical coordination or strength. Remember how you reacted to them? Now, honestly, if you're a heterosexual male, how do you feel when you see two males kissing, holding hands? Seeing a male dressing and acting as a female (and not a stage act)? Most react viscerally. It's neither right nor wrong. It simply is what it is. Intellectualizing about it is all well and good, but men come with a set of preconceived notions and are put off by anything that doesn't fit them. So, it's going to take time to adapt. I doubt if any of us were around when Truman ordered the military to integrate, but you can be damn sure it took time to adapt to that. The same with any change and during the period of adaptation, there will be issues. Transgender service members will be watched like hawks. There will be prejudicial attitudes. You can order the military to "integrate" but you can't order them to like it. They'll come around if the transgender service members perform well. If not, someone else is going to have to reconsider. It simply isn't for us to decide. If it were, I bet there would be no such order, would there? Policies like this always originate with people who won't be living in the same barracks or fighting in the same foxholes, are they? It's all simply an intellectual exercise to them, something driven by their good intentions...
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Capt Seid Waddell
Capt Seid Waddell
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CPT Jack Durish. "It's all simply an intellectual exercise to them, something driven by their good intentions..."

All ideology and no rationality, IMHO.
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Lt Col Chaplain
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On the USAF PT test: a male can have a maximum abdominal circumference of 39" and has to have a 35" or smaller abdominal circumference to get maximum points in that category. A female can have a maximum abdominal circumference of 35.5" and has to have a 31.5" or smaller abdominal circumference to get maximum points in that category. Considering that abdominal circumference makes up 20% of the composite score, and considering that lots of males have waists that are under 35" but not lots of males have waists under 31.5", most males would be better off sticking with the male standards.
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SSgt Copyright Specialist
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The Air Force is the only branch that uses body composition in how they score the services fitness test. All the other branches have body fat limits but females are always allowed higher percentages than males.
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SFC Clinic Ncoic
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Really, why is this even asked? Do you really forsee males, because of their borderline pt capabilities wanting to say they are woman? That is so far fetched. Transgender, that is their lifestyle, that is how they identify. It is not a choice of what they think they are. They belive they are born into a body that isn't theirs. This is ridiculous.
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Capt Seid Waddell
Capt Seid Waddell
>1 y
SGT Norman Cillo, well thought out and clearly expressed observations. Thank you.
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SSG Demetrius Davis
SSG Demetrius Davis
>1 y
SFC Zach K - I think you misunderstood, I wasn't agreeing with or validating any studies or anything. Or did I misunderstand that you thought I was?
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
CPT Mark Gonzalez
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) I do see it happening. Had several departing Soldiers make it very clear that they would do almost anything. Many ended up in the IDES for different medical conditions, but when it comes to the separation of marginal talent or declaring a different gender. You are damn right they will be people doing it. It is called human nature and every system in place has people trying to manipulate it to their advantage.
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SSgt Copyright Specialist
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Do you really think that there would not be anyone that would try to use they system to their advantage in this instance? Have you never had a troop take advantage of regulations before to get them out of trouble or make life easier for themselves? I know I did while I was in. There may not be many that claim to be women just to get around being on BCP but I imagine there will be a few throughout all of the services. Proving they are doing it just to get around standards will probably be impossible but there will be some just as some have contract marriages to move out of the barracks and get the extra BAH. The question really is when would genetic males that identify as females be allowed to follow females standards? Would it be as soon as they came out or only after going through hormone treatment? If hormone treatment had to be done that would probably be what would stop genetic males from trying to scam the system by claiming they were females.
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