Posted on Sep 6, 2016
Are you allowed to record conversations, while in uniform, with subordinates or superiors without their consent?
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Obviously if its sensitive/classified/HIPPA/Unit related information that is a no go. This is more along the lines of conversations in garrison nothing to do with unit but personal issues. I know the federal law allows it,that state laws may vary. I am wanting to know if it is against UCMJ/policy and refer to where that information can be found, sorry I am not looking for opinions here. Thanks!
Legal Advisor
JAG
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 7
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I'm a Paralegal, SGT. I've never heard of something like this, but I can check the books. I'll see if I can come up with anything. I would still consult a Judge Advocate though, they might be a bit more knowledgeable on this.
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SPC (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - I can't find anything in the Manuel for Courts-Martial about it in the Punitive Articles or Military Rules of Evidence. I checked § 938. Article 138. Complaints of wrongs, and nothing about recording there either.
I would make sure for certain about your Local, County, State, and Federal Laws regarding the matter in your area as when UCMJ doesn't have an Article, Civilian Law can be applied.
I would also check your Unit and Command Policies regarding this because if there is a policy then you could potentially be in violation of Article 92, Failure to obey order or regulation.
If this were involving something like capricious reprimand or complaints of wrongs and you were reporting it up the chain or to JAG you should be fine but ultimately I would still consult your JA because they might be able to find more then I did or know of a precedent or other such details on matters like this.
I would make sure for certain about your Local, County, State, and Federal Laws regarding the matter in your area as when UCMJ doesn't have an Article, Civilian Law can be applied.
I would also check your Unit and Command Policies regarding this because if there is a policy then you could potentially be in violation of Article 92, Failure to obey order or regulation.
If this were involving something like capricious reprimand or complaints of wrongs and you were reporting it up the chain or to JAG you should be fine but ultimately I would still consult your JA because they might be able to find more then I did or know of a precedent or other such details on matters like this.
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Suspended Profile
I'm not JAG, but I'm serving as an IG right now. Recordings have been used as evidence in IG cases before.
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Is their really no regulation answer for this? Seems very unlikely that the default would be "Go by the state you are in" 1. We're not talking about the National Guard. And 2. We are literally all around the world.. so which "State" do we default to then if we are in Iraq, Japan, Taiwan, etc..? 3. We are a federal force, so shouldn't we default to the federal rule then? 4. Why wouldn't be able to use a recording to defend yourself? So many times toxic leaders get away with stuff because they are given more benefit of doubt and credence to their word than the junior Soldier that is most likely facing the fire and we all know toxic Leaders are really forthcoming with integrity and good at accepting responsibility for their own faults right? Surely they would never manipulate things to their own benefit and while at the cost of others right?
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It falls under ethics. Are you using it in your defense? Are you using the conversations against them? In a court of law the unauthorized recordings and any investigations that stem from it can't be used.
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The easiest thing to do is simply inform the other party that you wish to record the conversation. If, however, you are attempting record conversations in order to "catch" them admitting to something, then it's a different story. Ultimately, it depends on the state your in, the location your in, current policies, and the intended usage of the final recording.
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SGT (Join to see)
What do you mean intended usage? If policies, state, and federal law allow it would it matter what the intended usage.
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SPC Paul Jennings, J.D.
SGT (Join to see) - Criminal vs civil vs administrative vs simply bringing to the COC attention. For example, it would be fairly simple to use a recording during a 15-6 even if it couldn't be authenticated, but if a court martial resulted it could muddy the waters.
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This has come up in my last unit, the end result was, follow state law. That was JA findings after a SM recorded a conversation without telling the offcier, and that recording was used in his defence at the General CM (unsuccessfully I might add)
We are in Texas, and only one person needs to be aware of the conversation being recorded.
So yes , the SM being counseled could without announcing it, record the conversation, or the commander (NCO ) could do the same.
notwithstanding classified info or medical private info of course.
We are in Texas, and only one person needs to be aware of the conversation being recorded.
So yes , the SM being counseled could without announcing it, record the conversation, or the commander (NCO ) could do the same.
notwithstanding classified info or medical private info of course.
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SGM Erik Marquez
I am not a Lawyer so take this for what it is worth,,,,NOTHING., but seeing your in OH I looked up the OH wiretapping law... "Ohio Wiretapping Law"
"Ohio's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Ohio law makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Ohio Rev. Code § 2933.52."
So like TX as long as ONE person in the conversation consents to the recording of the conversation, they can record it.
"Ohio's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Ohio law makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Ohio Rev. Code § 2933.52."
So like TX as long as ONE person in the conversation consents to the recording of the conversation, they can record it.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGM,
Was the defendant using the recording unsuccessful as it was not allowed to be used as evidence in the case or was the defendant unsuccessful using it to win a favorable case.
Was the defendant using the recording unsuccessful as it was not allowed to be used as evidence in the case or was the defendant unsuccessful using it to win a favorable case.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGT (Join to see) - His recording did not support his legal position as he had hoped.
It was heard in trial, and discounted as proof of his claim.
Those polled after, made note, the voice recording did more to undermine his position and support the government's.
This individual had been caught,,, period, and post caught attempted to muddle the investigation and later trial by claiming is was a conspiracy to "get him" .
A for effort, F- for execution, Id guess he will be coming up for release soon.
I hope no one in prison found out he was a child porn collector and child rapist.. that would have been really bad for him... Id guess…if they found out….somehow…maybe.
It was heard in trial, and discounted as proof of his claim.
Those polled after, made note, the voice recording did more to undermine his position and support the government's.
This individual had been caught,,, period, and post caught attempted to muddle the investigation and later trial by claiming is was a conspiracy to "get him" .
A for effort, F- for execution, Id guess he will be coming up for release soon.
I hope no one in prison found out he was a child porn collector and child rapist.. that would have been really bad for him... Id guess…if they found out….somehow…maybe.
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Just sounds grimey on all accounts... gross ... either way... the fact that you feel that you would need to is bad and if you are just planning to have ammunition against people... all around gross ...unless it is part of a CID investigation or regarding a serious crime sounds like low brow trashy stuff....
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