Posted on Jan 10, 2014
CSM Command Sergeant Major
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As a Commander/1SG, why would you circle yes for a Soldier to be integrated onto the CLI?  If you believe the Soldier is ready to be promoted to SGT/SSG why not just send them to the promotion board? 
Posted in these groups: Promotion board logo Promotion Board
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SGT Nathan Huff
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Said soldier should of been sent to the board a long time ago. if the CLI kicks in then some one made a mistake, either the soldier or his/her leadership.  
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SPC Infantryman
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I've only seen 2 people get promoted from CLI and let me tell you it wasn't good. One

sergeant went to WLC failed out and continued to be a bad soldier. Didn't even have a car and always bummed cigerettes and was bad with money...yet they still pinned him. Few months down the road he was chaptered out as a PFC. The other sergeant was borderline insane and was always talking about chemtrails and illuminati and was embarasing to be around. But he ETSd a few months later. If it was up to me I would only promote those that want it, not just hand it out because you don't want to see someone RCP.

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MSG Cavalry Scout
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My unit is dealing with this right now. A SGT that came to my unit promoted by CLI and doesn't know ANYTHING. No SSD-1, no WLC, and continues to walk around our troop saying, "I'm a private at heart". I can't count how many times this NCO has gotten pulled to the side by multiple leaders to include our 1SG to be corrected on his leadership and competence. And on top of everything, will not go out to buy himself ASU's as he still wears dress greens.
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SPC Infantryman
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What that's crazy, I'd contact his last unit and ask "why". I see your a cav scout and if he's a team leader in charge of troops and responible for them and their lives I hope he gets squared away quick. SSD1 is easy you can do that in a weekend and he should get pushed for WLC as a priority.
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MSG Cavalry Scout
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Well he cant go to WLC with dress Green's. Our 1SG or CSM wont allow it plus you need ASUs. His last NCOER was horrible and is looking at going to a reduction board right now. He in no way shape of form is ready to lead Soldiers.

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CPT Icu Nurse
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When the program was first instituted my 1SG and CDR set down all the leaders and discussed the CLI with them. Their prospective was and is right on target. The CLI is there to make sure a deserving Soldier is not over looked but, if as a leader you are properly counseling your Soldier's and setting EXACT goals that the Soliders need to meet to be promoted then the CLI will never come into play. It is the leaders responsibility to prepare the young Soldier for advancement. Each Soldier should be given a chance to become a leader; if the leaders are doing their job properly, the Soldiers who do not posses the proper qualities will be weeded out.
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SFC Contracting Nco
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I believe that if a Soldier is getting close to his RCP as a SPC or SGT he needs to rethink his time in the Army. I firmly believe that if you want to earn the next rank that its all on you not your chain of command and it shouldn't come down to his 1SG putting him on  the CLI list in order to allow him the time to develop.
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CSM Mike Maynard
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SSG Zelbst, and that is going to be a thing of the past shortly - when promotable status does not increase your RCP.
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SFC Contracting Nco
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I understand the RCP has changed; my thought is that you need to push yourself to earn that next rank and not wait until last minute (RCP). I have met many people who gripe about not getting promoted but I know from experience that if you bust your ass it will happen.
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SPC Infantryman
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I agree with that last statement SSG Zelbst.

 

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SSG Robert Burns
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I thought the exact same thing.
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SPC Infantryman
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So im a SPC in the army and my mos is (11B). Lets look at it at my point of view. You have NCO's going to the board passing by just saying the creed or barely knowing there information. You have NCO's in your company who are hot garbage at there job and lazy. BUT you still passed them at the board, BUT there still a SGT leading the younger soldiers down a terrible path. I understand there are great NCO's in the army but lets be real a lot of them are not worthy to be apart of the CORE OF NON COMMISSION OFFICERS.

Now I went to BLC before going to the board then after BLC did not attend the promotion board, I received orders to be a SGT... BUT like most of the people on this page my 1SGT denied it making some BS excuse, and then all my counseling that they wanted me to sign saying I'm not good enough to be a SGT made me laugh because every non-promo they made dumb excuses why they didn't want me to get it.

Im a E-4 with almost 6 years in and I work harder then 90% of the NCO's in my company I've been a Team Leader most of my career and Squad Leader for some as well. I always take care of my soldiers, I constantly train my soldiers to my standard which is way above everyone else's... Im great at counseling and i am extremely confident. I know my creeds as well. BUT since I don't go to the board my leadership sees me as a piece of shit... Makes me laugh.

So do you want a NCO who is trash who passed the board with just saying the creed or do you want to circle yes on that CLI on some of your soldiers you probably don't pay attention to and watch them outshine all your current NCO's.

I just wrote this because I was looking for information on CLI and I found this page and was just amazed about how most higher leadership thinks, and I just wanted y'all to have someone on the other side explain it from the perspective.
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SGT Technical Engineer
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I’ll give you a personal example since I’m looking at CLI this month. I made E-5 in December 2014 and attended ALC in June 2015. I was requesting to go to the board and preparing months ahead of eligibility. At the same time, I was waiting to go to the Civil Affairs Qualification Course. My command refused to send me to a board with the reason being my reclass. Tried to resolve it with IG but my CA Course had started and it was too late to attend the board before my class date. After attending SOCM and part of the Q I left the course to attend college and go back to engineering. When you leave the course you’re transferred to a holding company while you await orders. All in all, you can face 2-3 years with unrated time and no chance to attend a board. The CLI is the only way to get promoted in that situation.
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CPL Jonathan Roberts
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I wasn't the only one that was on the list myself and another specialist that came out of the reserves I was active duty at that time for years. We both got counseling statements not only that but then we were also told that we had to make our E5 in a certain amount of time within our MOS,(88m) or ETS or choose another MOS ( transition to another MOS) the other specialist made his E5 and I med board out. Threw my back out the last deployment to Iraq
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CPL Jonathan Roberts
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Needless to say I never made my 5 . I wound up Med boarding out.
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CPL Jonathan Roberts
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Free rides???? What .ok I got into a little of trouble and my commander had to take me off the list.
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CPL Jonathan Roberts
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When I got to my unit as anE4 spc . I was asked to become the training NCO , and the unit armour. I was sitting around 550-580 points , without the promotion board.and I was on this interg promotion list. Which last I heard was a list for the commander that listed his troops in the unit for the potential of promotion, E4 to E5 and E5 to E6.. that has at least 350 points or more.and should be on the next board appearance
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SGT Unit Supply Specialist
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SGM, COuld I get your list of 11 points you expect of your NCOs. Thanks
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SPC Infantryman
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I'm a specialist, prior service Marine (6 years; 4 active, 2 reserves, left as a cpl); I transferred over 3 years ago and I'm a year out from rcp, I've been to 11 Soldier of the Month boards and after two years of dealing with toxic leaders and optempo I've finally managed to get into BLC (I'm actually typing this up in the classroom). I've tried to get my leadership to send me to a promotion board, each time they insist on sotm boards. Then, they mentioned that I'm on the ICL and quit sending me based on that. So after I finish BLC, what happens?

I'm starting to grow annoyed; I love the military, the army's been quite good to my family and I, but I've been stressing over this...and it's starting to effect my performance.
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SPC Visual Information Equipment Operator/Maintainer
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I have a question regarding this list. I was told I was put on the Integration list and now I see that I have a P with 39 points on my ERB. Does this mean I have "Promotable status" and do I stop receiving non-promo counselings?
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SFC Senior Supply Sergeant
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Commander's Integration List (CIL) is a very bad idea; even the promotion board in general. Soldiers have been getting promoted with just the very minimum requirement because the Commander and/or 1SG is not monitoring the listing while AGR and Active service member are not being promoted due to low PT scores and not being able to recite the NCO creed- I'm upset about it. I have five yeas experience as a police officer, combat experience, active service experience and now AGR with over 400 points on promotion checklist but you tell me I'm not ready to be promoted because of a freaking NCO Creed and/or low PT score. Most that knows it don't follow it and those that don't know it work their freaking butt off without getting recognize with promotion only saying how good of a Soldier you are etc etc. PISSED
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MSG Cavalry Scout
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From the NCO's I've seen come out of CLI, I don't think it's a good idea. All of the Staff Sergeants and Sergeants I've seen come out of CLI have no leadership skills what so ever and have no intentions of getting right in order to set the example. A NCO in my unit now that got promoted through CLI at his last unit is currently facing the reduction board and another one will not for anything buy ASUs or complete SSD-1 as he has not been to WLC yet but been a SGT since 2012. In my opinion, I don't really think it's earned as they did not have to appear at a board like the rest of the qualified NCOs that earned their rank. However this is just my two sense! 
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SSG Detachment Sergeant
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If he has been an E5 since 2012. He was not promoted to E5 on the CLI list. Also SSD1 was not a requirement for promotion until 1 Jan 2014. During the time he was promoted the policy was promote then train. CLI is a solution to a systemic failure from leadership to promote or retain enough NCO's. Poor soldiers being promoted on the CLI list is because leadership from the squad leader up are failing to adequately do there job this is a systemic issue that is why the CLI is in place.
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1SG First Sergeant
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Out of the responses so far, there seems to be one element that is missing. These types of promotions can be prevented if the leadership deems Soldier to not be ready or fit for promotion. Having a proper counseling packet ensures that you as a leader have the ammunition to back up your belief, and present your case to the chain of command. All that is required after you brief the chain, is the commander has to disallow the promotion. This is one reason that it is vital to stay on top of the eligibility lists that come out each month, as the command only has a limited amount of time to act in order to prevent someone from being promoted who is on the automatic promotion list.
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1SG First Sergeant
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Flags aren't the only course of action in these cases either. All it takes is knowing the Soldier, and as you said, keeping up with the counseling packets. If you have shown that the Soldier does not have the traits neccessary to be promoted, then it should not be a problem to convice the command to block an automatic promotion. The same goes for another trend that I have seen growing in recent years, where a Soldier is sent to the promotion board simply because they are in their window, regardless of if their leadership believes them to be ready or not. 

I have said this on numerous posts in numerous threads here, but it all boils down to leadership involvement. If you are invested in the mentorship and grooming of the Soldiers that work for you, then you will know if they are ready, and if they aren't, what they need to work on in order to be ready.
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1SG First Sergeant
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You got me with an edit, so I will just add an addendum. As a leader you have to know what options there are for you to ensure the growth and development of the Soldiers that work for you. If they are ready and deserving, so be it, but if the aren't, you have to know that you have options.
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SFC Founder
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1SG I agree with your reasoning on CLI. To me CLI doesn't serve much purpose besides motivating deserving future NCOs.
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