Posted on Mar 19, 2014
Army Values on the NCOER. I think it should be Army Values Yes or No.
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What is the point of listing each Army Value and a block for each one. For example integiry-lives the army values. It is assumed that if you get a "no" on one then you automatically get a "no" for that one.
What difference does it make? You either live them or you dont. Does it matter which one you didnt live up to?
It should be Yes/No then comments.
NCOER
Values
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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I am confused by your tactics here. It almost sounds like you are downplaying the army values and what they mean and how a rated NCO best represents what the military wants from their leaders. I wouldn't mind it if the whole NCOER was just the army values. All the stuff on the back will fall in place if you actually truly live up to all of the army values.
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SSG Robert Burns
1SG, Im not sure how you draw all of those conclusions from me stating that you either live the Army Values or you don't.
Besides that, to your point about wanting the whole NCOER to be about the Army Values I say this. It's an evaluation of your performance. Living the Army Values is what you are supposed to do. It's nothing special. It is the minimal standard. Its like being recognized for taking care of your kids, or paying child support. That's what you are SUPPOSED to do.
Under responsibility would you post a bullet that says, "didn't lose his government credit card?"
It is the expectation to live them. All I am saying is, if they didn't, mark "NO" and explain what they violated.
But to have everyone rated SOLEY on Army Values as you suggest would be a discredit to everyone.
If you truly live up to all the army values all the stuff will fall in place on the back? Im not sure I understand that. Because if someone gets a needs improvement under a section doesn't necessarily mean they don't live the Army Values. I don't know how comfortable I'd be saying someone who failed their APFT because they got hurt or sick, or need some retraining in their career field under competence, would be a NO in Army Values.
Additionally just because you are living the Army Values doesn't mean you are necessarily good at your job, or "among the best" either. The Army Values are the bare minimum you need to be in this organization. The stuff on the back, that's what you do or don't do in addition to that minimum standard.
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What you are saying makes sense, but at the same time we need to try to be as specific as possible on the NCOER. I think leaving it more vague will only make our current NCOER less effective and more problematic than it already has. If someone violates the Army Values and it is reflected on the NCOER, it should be as specific as possible explaining exactly what the deficiency is.
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I'm a firm believer that all of the Army Values build off of each other. You can't live up to one without the others and you can't go against one without going against the others. I think if you're given a NO for one Army Value then it should be a NO for all of them.
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Yes but just like counseling, you need to be specific. I think the whole NCOER has bigger issues then the Army Values section though. I think raters need to rate and be honest about who they are rating. I have seen too many people move through the system because all their NCOERs were good. Then you have the 1 and 1.....why do people think a 2 or 3 is bad? It is because everyone gives the 1 and 1, now everyone expects it. I don't think we use that section very effectively.
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SSG Robert Burns
I agree. When someone says you are "among the best." How do they know that? Do they know who the best are? What if they are just around a bunch of duds.
Kinda like a 1 eyed man around blind folk. How do you know that rater knows what the best really is? Im sure the Jamiacan bobsled team is considered among the best until they get to the Olympics.
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