Posted on Apr 29, 2020
As a PSGT, how do I handle a situation if one of my NCOs thinks a soldier needing a shaving profile needs to get out of the Army?
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Hello everyone I just want opinions on this situation. So today at work I had an Soldier (PFC) come into my office and say he needed to talk to me in private, so of course I stepped aside with him and asked him what was wrong, so this Soldier told me that his squad leader which is an E-5 told him that “ Soldiers that has an shaving profile/ needs a shaving profile doesn’t need to be in the Army/ needs to get out of the army” And yes this Soldier does have a shaving profile, so I told the Soldier I was going to handle the situation. (This is the 2nd time the NCO has said this by the way but I wasn’t in the company when it happened) So later that day I pulled the NCO aside and asked him did he say what the Soldier told me he replied with “ yes I did say it and that is how I feel” I told the nco not to say it again and that he can’t be saying things like that. Both of them are African Americans (just throwing that in before anyone questions it) so I want to know did I handle the situation correctly? Is it EO? And if this happens again how should I handle it ?
Posted in these groups: 
Sexual Harassment and Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP)
Equal Opportunity (EO)
Sgt
Officers
Warrant Officers
Sexual Harassment and Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP) Equal Opportunity (EO) Sgt Officers Warrant Officers
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 36
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I was never a huge fan of the shaving waivers either but this NCO needs to "check himself before he wrecks himself". My (and his) opinion doesn't matter in regards to the established rules, laws, policies, and regulations. Our role is to fairly enforce standards regardless of our personal feelings and/or beliefs.
I think you handled the situation as well as you could have. I'd suggest having an "informal" conversation with this NCO about keeping his personal feelings as just that...PERSONAL. You could also remind him that his next NCOER could reflect poorly if he doesn't learn to remain professional in his dealings.
I think you handled the situation as well as you could have. I'd suggest having an "informal" conversation with this NCO about keeping his personal feelings as just that...PERSONAL. You could also remind him that his next NCOER could reflect poorly if he doesn't learn to remain professional in his dealings.
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
SGT Herbert Bollum - Good catch SGT! I should have included that statement in my original response.
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Policy trumps feelings in the military. It isn't EO, rather poor judgment on the part of the SL. Tell the SL he can get in line, can the crap, or face problems.
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“ how do I handle a situation if one of my NCOs thinks a soldier needing a shaving profile needs to get out of the Army?”
Real simple. As shaving profiles are a valid, common thing that are in compliance with Army regulations, you just need to inform the NCO that you think that NCOs who take it upon themselves to publicly disregard Army regulation (in front of Junior enlisted) in favor of personal opinion need to get out of the Army.
Real simple. As shaving profiles are a valid, common thing that are in compliance with Army regulations, you just need to inform the NCO that you think that NCOs who take it upon themselves to publicly disregard Army regulation (in front of Junior enlisted) in favor of personal opinion need to get out of the Army.
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Since you know this has happened before, this should be a written counseling. If it happens again, well....Squad leader isn't a rank, it's a position. I would relieve him of his position and give it to the next in line. Would be fun to see the look on that SGT's face when an SPC or CPL has positional authority over him.
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You did your job and the NCO needs to comply. You don't have to say, "That's an order."
A SPC in my unit (not mine) got an Article 15. He tried to use that as his defense to the CO.
I'm with SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" on this one.
A SPC in my unit (not mine) got an Article 15. He tried to use that as his defense to the CO.
I'm with SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" on this one.
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A shaving profile, regardless of one's personal opinions about it, is a valid medical profile. Does the NCO feel the same way about other medical profiles?
I would have THAT conversation with the NCO in question. If necessary, which I hope it would NOT be, I would put the NCO in place regarding their medical expertise, lack thereof, and therefore the (complete and total lack of) value of their opinion regarding the situation. If they still didn't get it, THEN I would go to putting on paper an official order to keep their yap shut about any and all medical profiles.
I would have THAT conversation with the NCO in question. If necessary, which I hope it would NOT be, I would put the NCO in place regarding their medical expertise, lack thereof, and therefore the (complete and total lack of) value of their opinion regarding the situation. If they still didn't get it, THEN I would go to putting on paper an official order to keep their yap shut about any and all medical profiles.
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To me hating shaving profiles is on the same lines as hating someone that scrapes by with 60s on the apft/acft. The only difference is that SOMEtimes (some have blatantly admitted that they didnt ever have a real need for it, just wanted it) those with a shaving profile cant help that they need it. He can hate it all he wants but it doesnt do any good to increase tensions by externally voicing it.
Handled it with the NCO well by telling them to keep their mouth shut. Could have handled it better with the Private I would say. Thinking of it from the privates eyes it's now wrong to not like beards and that people that dont like him deserve to be handled. If it's something like this where the NCO isn't going against regs but needs to learn better ways to approach his issues theres no need to "handle" it because there is no real situation. Perhaps you could explain that to the private, "theres nothing saying he cant have that opinion" but then going back and getting into that NCOs ass for being an idiot. Keep the Corps strong and don't let those privates feel entitled.
Handled it with the NCO well by telling them to keep their mouth shut. Could have handled it better with the Private I would say. Thinking of it from the privates eyes it's now wrong to not like beards and that people that dont like him deserve to be handled. If it's something like this where the NCO isn't going against regs but needs to learn better ways to approach his issues theres no need to "handle" it because there is no real situation. Perhaps you could explain that to the private, "theres nothing saying he cant have that opinion" but then going back and getting into that NCOs ass for being an idiot. Keep the Corps strong and don't let those privates feel entitled.
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SFC (Join to see)
From his example the E5 simply stated a dislike for all beards. He didnt say that the leader was berating, degrading or otherwise reacting negatively towards the private beyond stating his distaste. If the beard is in regs or not in regs is besides the point in this discussion which is why I put it my way. Support the nco and develop them professionally by telling them to shut their mouth when it comes to personal opinion if theres a reg that allows stuff and with the private explain the difference between regs vs opinions.
You went off the deep end talking about protected groups vs beards, hair color, and families, let's get real here.
Have your NCOs back with the private like a good senior leader does (as long as the nco didnt actually do anything wrong) and then get in that NCOs ass with some professional development since that's the job we have.
I see where you're going, care about everyones feelings. Dont let people bully. Bullying is up to the eyes of the leadership. You see this as bullying based off of however you grew up in both life and the military whereas I don't see this as bullying in the slightest. I grew up with crap like this. I made sure my stuff was in regs but 1SG didnt like my eyepro, my glasses, my haircut and I caught flack every day as did my PSG and SQL. In the end I did my job and got the rating I deserved.
You went off the deep end talking about protected groups vs beards, hair color, and families, let's get real here.
Have your NCOs back with the private like a good senior leader does (as long as the nco didnt actually do anything wrong) and then get in that NCOs ass with some professional development since that's the job we have.
I see where you're going, care about everyones feelings. Dont let people bully. Bullying is up to the eyes of the leadership. You see this as bullying based off of however you grew up in both life and the military whereas I don't see this as bullying in the slightest. I grew up with crap like this. I made sure my stuff was in regs but 1SG didnt like my eyepro, my glasses, my haircut and I caught flack every day as did my PSG and SQL. In the end I did my job and got the rating I deserved.
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I've experienced similar issues. I personally would remind the NCO that if medical gave him a shaving chit, and his facial hair or skin reactions to shaving are not impeding his ability to perform, then he needs to accept that decision made by people far more qualified to do so and that, while he may have feelings about it, he doesn't need to act or speak to fellow soldiers who may someday save his life. In my experience, almost everyone has something that someone else feels should disqualify them from service (for example, being a bad or negative leader to those you are supposed to mentor, train, and be an example to).
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