At what point do we revamp "basic Soldier skills"?

I'm afraid doctrine and training are updated and revised at the speed of smell...

On behalf of myself ( since I can't speak for a whole organization the size of TRADOC), I sincerely apologize for any irrelevant training you may have recieved or time of yours that you'll never get back..

Just know that it's all being worked on, and you should see some results by approximately May 7th, 2072.

*Quick update* Due to a recent FRAGO that mandates all Powerpoint presentations be reformatted with a new font, I'm afraid all progress has been halted until we hire 82,000 more civilians.

SSG Woods,

You just got me fired up! Is revamping basic Soldier skills important? YES, but I lean the other way. As an Infantry leader, I lean heavily on basic Soldier skills every day! I navigate outside the wire with a plain old map and compass all the time! Of course I have a GPS to assist, but that doesn't cut it when you're directing CCA/CAS/or indirect fires. Sure non-combat MOSs don't need the same level of proficiency, but my fear is when we get into a real conventional fight, there won’t be FOBs to hide on, everyone must be ready to fight and defend themselves and their buddies. IMTs, old school land nav, radios and marksmanship ETC are life savers.

Great discussion!

-Justin

Ultimately, its why we still teach celestial navigation and horizontal sextant positioning in the seagoing services, Because Technology WILL FAIL! The back up system to a Hospital Electronic record is the paper file, Back up to GPS is compass and topo-map, All electrical components are susceptible to EMP, whether natural from sun spots or man-made through NucDet, Very few systems are TEMPEST hardened, so we train on lowest common denominator which is our failsafe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening

I would contend that we do not do this enough. I used my compass in combat and I had to navigate with a map also. I don't think we focus on this enough. I also did have a GPS but I would use it seldom as a means of confirming my location or giving up a solid grid.

Power will go out. You may need to do a follow up mission or your GPS may get jammed. If you rely on only one way to complete the mission you are going to have a mighty small kit bag of resources. I just would like to point to the Marines as they do a great job ensuring that all Marines know these skills.

I see this as a breakdown of the military. We don't train our soldiers to be soldiers anymore. We teach followers. We follow GPS or just ride in a vehicle paying no mind to where they are at. The only one that really knows where they are is the leader. At that point the leader has had no experience performing such tasks due to having no expectation as a solider to perform such a task. And situations like Jessica Lynch happen. I know that it was a tragic event but it was an epic failure of soldiering. Not one officer or NCO knew what to do because they were used to using a GPS and just followed it.

I would also charge the NCO Corps for training younger soldier. The squad leader is the chief trainer of his/her squad, the PSG is the chief trainer of their platoon, the 1SG is the chief trainer of the company. Is it your responsibility to tailor the training to the needs of the unit and not just follow some book.

I was a OC for the first Army training units deploying to Iraq. It scared me to see some of these units. I really questioned their NCO's on how do they think their lack of preparedness will result in theater. The train up to deploy should be a refresher and not the first time soldiers are getting trained on combat operations.

Probably the same reason we're still using PDA devices and blackberries vs iphones and androids. Probably the same reason that we can't digitally transfer medical records (I can't count how many times I had to carry 30 lbs of paper medical records from the hospital). The Army waits for war to update, and then we're 10 years behind. Like the saying goes, "the army is a slow moving beast".

I can say from my current position, it is a budget issue. It takes a long time, a lot of money and higher approval to change the POI for a course that is being taught in the Army. For the Field Artillery, we have started implementing these changes slowly, but will never be fully caught up with technology due to time and budget constraints. I do agree with you though.

Maybe I'm not communicating this very well but please let me try again because I am getting a lot of great feedback, but I can see there is a misunderstanding.

My point in this discussion is that I believe we should receive extensive training on MORE than one source, not solely on the traditional basics.

For example, if I know my team will be riding in an MRAP when they go outside the wire, isn't it just as important to train them on how to operate an MRAP as it is to ruck 10 miles in case their MRAP breaks down?

You make some great points. However, I think basic navigation skills are important and although you may not have a compass the rest of the land nav training can be used, like terrain association, knowing how far you have walked and how to keep track of your direction while navigating obstacles. It also teaches them to trust their equipment, no matter what it is... you won't be rappelling much in the army either, but it's good at teaching troops to overcome fear and trust in the knowledge they have picked up over the past week.

But, I agree, new Soldiers should get more than they get on the new basics of the army.

My question is why are you doing training that doesn't relate to your job? I have to justify all my training as related to my mission if it isn't in one of my collective tasks. Even then if I'm not in a particular cycle I have to justify that training even if it's a task. If you can't see the need then why train it?

For the record I can justify map reading and land nav for my guys but we do a lot of varied tasks that we can't rely on electronic navigation to be effective. Try using a Garmin during a disaster when all the roads are blocked.

Soldier skills are like Algebra: the teacher can always tell you that you need to know it and why but isn't sure exactly when and where you'll use it. Ruck marching is like that because even though few units actually move like this "you may have to do it someday". I think rucking has become more of a fitness activity than a tactical necessity and that's okay as long as we're not breaking people in the process.

Don't be afraid to color outside the lines. Your experience as an NCO is one of the best training tools you have. If you identify a training need (skills, knowledge, ability) that the Army hasn't don't be afraid to incorporate that into your training. Your Soldiers will appreciate it.