Posted on Mar 28, 2015
Bergdahl's Defense... The gauntlet has been thrown...
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Inside sources have leaked a potential outline for the Bergdahl defense.
What would you be willing to do to report wrong doing in your unit?
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bergdahl-reportedly-didnt-trust-commanders-tried-to-walk-to-nearest-u-s-outpost/
What would you be willing to do to report wrong doing in your unit?
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bergdahl-reportedly-didnt-trust-commanders-tried-to-walk-to-nearest-u-s-outpost/
Ethics
Values
Bergdahl
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 13
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I wonder if he remembers the name of the nearest OP.
That (OP coordinates and name) is something THIS PFC, would have committed to memory before doing something this PFC would never have done.
Just a question and in no way represents my opinion of his actions, charges, or possible punishments, service, or otherwise.
Elsewhere I have said how I feel if he is found guilty.
I'm just wondering, before everyone bites the hot dog, is this a plausible defense?
A CSM on here points out it would likely be rolled into the Mental Health Defense.
That (OP coordinates and name) is something THIS PFC, would have committed to memory before doing something this PFC would never have done.
Just a question and in no way represents my opinion of his actions, charges, or possible punishments, service, or otherwise.
Elsewhere I have said how I feel if he is found guilty.
I'm just wondering, before everyone bites the hot dog, is this a plausible defense?
A CSM on here points out it would likely be rolled into the Mental Health Defense.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
"I wonder if he remembers the name of the nearest OP."
At this point, he doesn't have to remember it. Been too long. Been through too much, and can claim that "for not remembering"
"I'm just wondering, before everyone bites the hot dog, is this a plausible defense?"
Personal opinion only, but yes. It's plausible. It's actually pretty slick. It plays into his mental health issues. Ignores all issues post disappearance. Makes it look like "he may have been trying to do the right thing 'in his mental state'" That last bit is key. We have a real hard time hammering people when they 'believe' they are doing the right thing, even if they go about it the wrong way. Doesn't mean they won't pay, but it does mitigate the punishment A LOT.
At this point, he doesn't have to remember it. Been too long. Been through too much, and can claim that "for not remembering"
"I'm just wondering, before everyone bites the hot dog, is this a plausible defense?"
Personal opinion only, but yes. It's plausible. It's actually pretty slick. It plays into his mental health issues. Ignores all issues post disappearance. Makes it look like "he may have been trying to do the right thing 'in his mental state'" That last bit is key. We have a real hard time hammering people when they 'believe' they are doing the right thing, even if they go about it the wrong way. Doesn't mean they won't pay, but it does mitigate the punishment A LOT.
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PFC (Join to see)
I hear what you are saying about the time and tribulations, but I feel that it should at least be in the line of questioning, if it was not already.
Certainly put an interesting spin on things.
Then, how to determine Berg's mental state at the time, accurately, if we cannot gauge
the veracity of his action in respect to it's real world consequence?
Meaning otherwise, that if we must take his statement of an attempt at a "noble gesture" at it's face value, while using his mental state to better illustrate his intent, then really where can we put a counterweight to balance the scale?
How the HECK can we check that out?
Certainly put an interesting spin on things.
Then, how to determine Berg's mental state at the time, accurately, if we cannot gauge
the veracity of his action in respect to it's real world consequence?
Meaning otherwise, that if we must take his statement of an attempt at a "noble gesture" at it's face value, while using his mental state to better illustrate his intent, then really where can we put a counterweight to balance the scale?
How the HECK can we check that out?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
PFC (Join to see) It's the Defense job to cast doubt. That's the trick. Unless the Prosecution can PROVE otherwise... that's how our Due Process system is designed to work. That's how ensure people get a fair trial, and how Blackstone's Formulation (better that 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent...) is ensured.
The scales of justice are not supposed to be balanced. They are supposed to be lopsided to the Defense.
The scales of justice are not supposed to be balanced. They are supposed to be lopsided to the Defense.
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PFC (Join to see)
Roger that Sgt.
I was more getting at the... seemingly impossible way to verify anything but intent. IF time negates accuracy of memory, nut his claim to defense is based on memory... well hooey.
I was more getting at the... seemingly impossible way to verify anything but intent. IF time negates accuracy of memory, nut his claim to defense is based on memory... well hooey.
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Since the story is completely independent of whether there ACTUALLY was wrong-doing etc. at his unit and relates solely to what Sgt. Bergdahl "believed" there is a very good chance of it succeeding as a defense to a charge of desertion as it vitiates the mental element required if Sgt. Bergdahl's defense lawyers can convince the court that he believed it - at the time he left his unit (and that it isn't some cock and bull story that he concocted later).
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COL Ted Mc
PO2 William Allen Crowder PO; You may well be correct.
Unfortunately we have this silly little thing called "due process" that we have to put up with. Life would be so much simpler if we could act on what we "just know" is true. I mean, when have the media EVER launched an accusation that was even the slightest bit less than 100% correct and when have the courts ever sent an innocent man to the gallows?
After all, it's stupid to say that the Founding Fathers ever had any Original Intent that the rights set out in the Constitution would REALLY be available to everyone. Right?
Unfortunately we have this silly little thing called "due process" that we have to put up with. Life would be so much simpler if we could act on what we "just know" is true. I mean, when have the media EVER launched an accusation that was even the slightest bit less than 100% correct and when have the courts ever sent an innocent man to the gallows?
After all, it's stupid to say that the Founding Fathers ever had any Original Intent that the rights set out in the Constitution would REALLY be available to everyone. Right?
William Allen Crowder at Retired | Former PO2 - FC: Fire Controlman | RallyPoint
View the full military profile of PO2 William Allen Crowder, Certified Master Gardener, Trained Storm Spotter, CoCoRaHS Observer at Retired | RallyPoint professional military profile.
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COL Ted Mc
SGT (Join to see) Sergeant; You have it all wrong. The rule is
[1] If they are "our side" then they are entitled to every possible procedural and legal safeguard right through (and continuing after) the travesty of a legal system makes a victim out of yet another innocent person,
while
[2] If they are NOT "our side" then the guilty bastards should receive the harshest penalties that human perversity can devise at the first whiff of a ghost of a hint of the possibility of a suspicion of an accusation.
Or don't you watch much TV news?
[1] If they are "our side" then they are entitled to every possible procedural and legal safeguard right through (and continuing after) the travesty of a legal system makes a victim out of yet another innocent person,
while
[2] If they are NOT "our side" then the guilty bastards should receive the harshest penalties that human perversity can devise at the first whiff of a ghost of a hint of the possibility of a suspicion of an accusation.
Or don't you watch much TV news?
SGT Military Police Team Leader at 529th MP, 95th MP | 31B: Military Police | RallyPoint
View the full military profile of SGT (Join to see), Military Police Team Leader at 529th MP, 95th MP | Mannheim, Germany | RallyPoint professional military profile.
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COL Ted Mc
MSG Ramon Hidalgo-Acosta Master Sergeant; I do hope that you don't think that I "buy into" the position of his defense counsel.
I am, however, perfectly willing to wait to see if there is any evidence to back up that position, what that evidence is, how substantial/reliable the witnesses to back that evidence are, and whether that evidence is actually sufficient to raise a reasonable doubt.
What the thrust of this thread appears to ignore is that the crux of the matter IS NOT what you or I would be thinking in the situation that Sgt. Bergdhal was in - but rather what he was thinking.
Even then, that is only relevant to what type of "being away from his post" the court is actually dealing with.
I am, however, perfectly willing to wait to see if there is any evidence to back up that position, what that evidence is, how substantial/reliable the witnesses to back that evidence are, and whether that evidence is actually sufficient to raise a reasonable doubt.
What the thrust of this thread appears to ignore is that the crux of the matter IS NOT what you or I would be thinking in the situation that Sgt. Bergdhal was in - but rather what he was thinking.
Even then, that is only relevant to what type of "being away from his post" the court is actually dealing with.
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COL Ted Mc
MSG Ramon Hidalgo-Acosta Master Sergeant; It doesn't actually appear that "The Obama Administration" has taken any position on the matter yet.
If you want to, you can put Ms. Rice's remarks in a little fuller context here
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/politics/rice-cnn-interview/
if you don't, you can continue to believe whatever you have been told you are supposed to believe.
There is absolutely no question that Sgt. Bergdahl "left his post" - no one (not even Sgt. Bergdahl) is taking any issue with that point.
However, there IS some question over WHY he did so and what he was thinking at the time.
Is he likely to be found guilty of something? You don't convene General Courts and then march the innocent bastard in - so, of course, he's going to be found guilty of SOMETHING.
is he likely to be found guilty of desertion? That pretty much depends on how much the senior military leadership wants to screw President Obama over. If they are bound and determined to destroy the country in order to advance their own political agenda - very likely. If they aren't - much less likely.
However there is one thing that you can be absolutely sure of - the trial will play a big part in the ongoing Presidential Election Campaign.
If you want to, you can put Ms. Rice's remarks in a little fuller context here
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/politics/rice-cnn-interview/
if you don't, you can continue to believe whatever you have been told you are supposed to believe.
There is absolutely no question that Sgt. Bergdahl "left his post" - no one (not even Sgt. Bergdahl) is taking any issue with that point.
However, there IS some question over WHY he did so and what he was thinking at the time.
Is he likely to be found guilty of something? You don't convene General Courts and then march the innocent bastard in - so, of course, he's going to be found guilty of SOMETHING.
is he likely to be found guilty of desertion? That pretty much depends on how much the senior military leadership wants to screw President Obama over. If they are bound and determined to destroy the country in order to advance their own political agenda - very likely. If they aren't - much less likely.
However there is one thing that you can be absolutely sure of - the trial will play a big part in the ongoing Presidential Election Campaign.
Susan Rice defends Bergdahl comments, calls his service 'honorable' - CNNPolitics.com
Susan Rice defends her comments on Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl and commends his service, despite claims he deserted.
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Now the prosecutors need to find others not in that unit to corroborate their claims.
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