Posted on Apr 30, 2015
Best way to provide information to a Recruiter about a possible recruit?
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Hey everyone. Just a little background that is relevant to this situation (on myself). I served three years active duty with a one year deployment to lovely Baghdad after which I decided to leave the Military and enter back into the teaching field. I am now at the high school level where I not only teach, but also coach multiple sports and am involved with a lot of other activities. Reason why I tell you that is so that you have an understanding that I see these kids in a wide range of environments, so I see myself as a well rounded individual in terms of judging kids and providing information in more than just a classroom setting. As everyone knows, not the best Soldiers were straight A student (if that comes as a surprise to you than I'm sorry for spoiling that for you).
So to my original question. We had a recruiter come to our school a few days ago during our physical education class. Nothing earth shattering here other than a Recruiter doing their PR work. Fast forward to today, I happened to ask this Sergeant if he happened to be working with a certain student. At which time he told me he was. From here I informed him of discipline issues this kid has had throughout his high school time as well as his drug use (which this kid is very open to). This particular Sergeant did not seem like he cared nor was worried about the information I was passing along to him. I told him straight up that I did not want to feel as if I was forcing information on him but thought he'd like to know so he isn't wasting valuable time on this guy. Turns out, from talking to other staff members, this same Sergeant was also seen a few weeks ago chasing this same individual down the hallway asking him why he hasn't returned numerous other voice mails/messages he has left.
Anyways, is this an isolated incident where a recruiter is so focused in on just getting the credit for this kid getting through MEPS he doesn't care about the issues at hand? I have talked with other recruiters (not from this location) before about other kids and they all have been positive (both good kids and bad kids).
I'll hang up and listen to what you all think.
So to my original question. We had a recruiter come to our school a few days ago during our physical education class. Nothing earth shattering here other than a Recruiter doing their PR work. Fast forward to today, I happened to ask this Sergeant if he happened to be working with a certain student. At which time he told me he was. From here I informed him of discipline issues this kid has had throughout his high school time as well as his drug use (which this kid is very open to). This particular Sergeant did not seem like he cared nor was worried about the information I was passing along to him. I told him straight up that I did not want to feel as if I was forcing information on him but thought he'd like to know so he isn't wasting valuable time on this guy. Turns out, from talking to other staff members, this same Sergeant was also seen a few weeks ago chasing this same individual down the hallway asking him why he hasn't returned numerous other voice mails/messages he has left.
Anyways, is this an isolated incident where a recruiter is so focused in on just getting the credit for this kid getting through MEPS he doesn't care about the issues at hand? I have talked with other recruiters (not from this location) before about other kids and they all have been positive (both good kids and bad kids).
I'll hang up and listen to what you all think.
Recruiter
Recruiting
Advice
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 6
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A lot of factors in play with your question that are not in your posting. In truth, the best way to provide information is directly to the recruiter and to have a relationship with the recruiter, so they are willing to trust what you are saying.
While I am sure you were looking out for the service, we also need to give people a chance to at try to make something of their lives...there were a lot of people make it through training who many did not think were the 'right' fit?
While I am sure you were looking out for the service, we also need to give people a chance to at try to make something of their lives...there were a lot of people make it through training who many did not think were the 'right' fit?
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SPC Nate Lamphier Nate... A lot of good advice here and kudos for you to try and be helpful to the recruiter. A million years ago (1992-1994) when I was one for the Army in Joplin, MO trying to get anything resembling help from a teacher or counselor was a challenge. We were always trying to find COIs or Centers of Influence to help us... Which you would fall in the category of IMO. I would recommend... if you're game... Going to the Recruiting Office and establishing some rapport with the Station Commander and the recruiter(s). I know one thing from my time... any Intel, good or bad, on a prospective applicant was helpful... and could prepare me for unpleasant surprises... My job is to give a kid a chance; however, I tried very hard to ensure the kid wasn't a "chapter" waiting to happen.
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Well at the moment I am a recruiter for the United States Navy and as long as it wasn't a major drug issue then that's not a problem and the discipline issue wouldn't deter me either. I would say thank you for the information and continue on. My job is to find qualified people as well as be a role model. If I could get that kid and let him know what is out there for him but all he has to do is straighten up. I love being a mentor and role model for these kids and helping people out of situations like that.
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Couple of things come to mind. Depending on location and command climate (usually toxic in USAREC), recruiting is absurdly stressful. There is tremendous pressure to produce. This recruiter is probably being leaned on by his station commander to get results. This certainly doesn't excuse a recruiter acting unethically or ignoring disqualifying information; I only say it to help you understand things from the recruiter's perspective. Or he could just be a jerk; I have no way of knowing.
Secondly, and more importantly, qualifying or disqualifying a candidate isn't really the recruiter's job. A recruiter prescreens a candidate, and then (barring any red flags) sends them to MEPS for vetting. It's the folks at MEPS who ultimately decide of a candidate makes the cut. The recruiter's ultimate responsibilities are to not lie to candidates about Army life, not lie to MEPS about a candidate, and get candidates to MEPS. Any recruiter who tries to, you know, actually mentor candidates are just going above and beyond.
Secondly, and more importantly, qualifying or disqualifying a candidate isn't really the recruiter's job. A recruiter prescreens a candidate, and then (barring any red flags) sends them to MEPS for vetting. It's the folks at MEPS who ultimately decide of a candidate makes the cut. The recruiter's ultimate responsibilities are to not lie to candidates about Army life, not lie to MEPS about a candidate, and get candidates to MEPS. Any recruiter who tries to, you know, actually mentor candidates are just going above and beyond.
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SFC Stephen King
Pre screen conducted by the recruiter and followed up by the station commander. There are specific questions that are medical & legal. Once that has occurs police checks are conducted.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Not lie to candidates about Army life.......*rolls on floor laughing*. My recruiter back in the mid-80s told me Basic Training was like a vacation and he wished he could go again.
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SFC Josh Jackson
SPC Nate Lamphier, It's a barrage of medical and legal questions, mostly. Academically, it doesn't take much to enlist, although higher scores means greater job variety and eligibility. Recruiters only really look at the big chunks; chronic illnesses, felonies ( or too many misdemeanors), drug use, etc. There are people in USAREC whose job is it to vet candidates based on the records that the recruiters provide. Once they bless off on an applicant, then they can get down to brass tacks. For being the easiest branch to get into, it's still absurdly difficult to join the Army. Fewer than one in four candidates make it past the recruiters' screening. Of those, maybe ten percent get the go ahead to enlist. So when a recruiter finds a kid he thinks can make it to the oath room, they chase them down pretty aggressively.
CW3 (Join to see), well, not supposed to lie about Army life. What can I say? I was the recruiter I wish I had back in the day. I told my kids that basic was the coolest thing you never want to do again. I told them it would suck, but they'd remember it fondly. Having kept up with a bunch of my recruits, I can tell you that was pretty much their experience. I also warned them about CQ.
CW3 (Join to see), well, not supposed to lie about Army life. What can I say? I was the recruiter I wish I had back in the day. I told my kids that basic was the coolest thing you never want to do again. I told them it would suck, but they'd remember it fondly. Having kept up with a bunch of my recruits, I can tell you that was pretty much their experience. I also warned them about CQ.
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SSG Dan McIntosh
I just left recruiting after my 3 year requirement almost a year ago, so I am going to add on to what SFC Jackson has mentioned.
First is everything he said is correct. Location and command climate plays a huge role in how most "new" recruiters act. By the original post, I would say that this recruiter was fairly new. Second, he seems to be ignoring the "red flags". Hard to say exactly, without being there.
But to add to qualifying or disqualifying, this actually begins with the recruiter. Governed by regulation, a recruiter can disqualify a candidate. Some of these disqualifications however, are best passed to the station commander to ensure there isn't something that can be waived and its a good way to keep a check and balance on recruiters to do the right thing.
However, with the pressure to produce, a lot of issues that shouldn't be allowed to enter the service, are "pencil whipped" just so that recruiting station can make their quota.
The only suggestion I can provide, based on my experience only, is talk to the student. Get his side of whats going on. Second you can talk to the station commander to get a better understanding of what and how the recruiters are supposed to be doing in your school. If something is not right, you can take it up with your school officials and it can be changed/stopped if deemed harmful to the students. Lastly, you can talk to the company commander and again explain your issues with him/her.
Best of luck to you and that student.
First is everything he said is correct. Location and command climate plays a huge role in how most "new" recruiters act. By the original post, I would say that this recruiter was fairly new. Second, he seems to be ignoring the "red flags". Hard to say exactly, without being there.
But to add to qualifying or disqualifying, this actually begins with the recruiter. Governed by regulation, a recruiter can disqualify a candidate. Some of these disqualifications however, are best passed to the station commander to ensure there isn't something that can be waived and its a good way to keep a check and balance on recruiters to do the right thing.
However, with the pressure to produce, a lot of issues that shouldn't be allowed to enter the service, are "pencil whipped" just so that recruiting station can make their quota.
The only suggestion I can provide, based on my experience only, is talk to the student. Get his side of whats going on. Second you can talk to the station commander to get a better understanding of what and how the recruiters are supposed to be doing in your school. If something is not right, you can take it up with your school officials and it can be changed/stopped if deemed harmful to the students. Lastly, you can talk to the company commander and again explain your issues with him/her.
Best of luck to you and that student.
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I would say that information is hearsay unless coming from him a guardian or a physician of sorts "drug use". I personally would take a teachers information into consideration. Also, a recruiter chasing a kid down the hall at a school is pretty unprofessional. Recruiters are suppose to be establishing a friendship/ partnership between himself the Army and the school, chasing a kid down the hall seems more of a nucenc then a helping hand.
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SPC Nate Lamphier
SSG(P) (Join to see) thanks for the reply. Just to be clear, this information comes directly from the kid. There are also members of this kid's "group" that have been busted for drugs during searches at school.
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SPC Nate Lamphier
@MSG Brad Sand. To clarify the Recruiter chasing down the kid. It was outside the lunch room (down a long hallway). The recruiter kept trailing the kid asking him why he hasn't returned his calls or messages that he has left the over the course of a week. This individual just kept walking ignoring said Sergeant. The recruiter kept trailing the student until they ducked into a classroom without acknowledging the Recruiter. Again, this was not the kids "idea" of chasing down the hall after him, this is a respected teacher. In terms of sprinting down the hallway, no, there was no running. But rather a walk down the hallway with the Recruiter about 10 feet behind the student passing the cold shoulder.
Perhaps the confusion came in my first response to SSG(P) (Join to see) where I said the hearsay of this kids drug use was coming directly from the kid himself. Otherwise, the information, as noted above, in regards to the kids avoiding the Recruiter was coming from a teacher who saw this event take place.
Perhaps the confusion came in my first response to SSG(P) (Join to see) where I said the hearsay of this kids drug use was coming directly from the kid himself. Otherwise, the information, as noted above, in regards to the kids avoiding the Recruiter was coming from a teacher who saw this event take place.
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Call them... You can send it though the internet or e-mail but they stand a chance of being delayed.... Just look up the number and give them a ring. I was a recruiter and we were totally on top of any call in possibilities.
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SPC Nate Lamphier
SFC Charles S.: Having friends who are or have been recruiters for the Army, I understand the work that this task demands. That is a big reason why I like to talk to the Recruiters. I hope that my input can help them so that they don't lose time away from family because they were wasting their time with a kid who fails a drug test at MEPS. On the other side of things, I have gone to bat for students who made mistakes during their high school time but I felt they would still be a good Soldier. I do the same thing with college recruiters (athletic) when they ask me for my input on certain athletes. I do however, take more pride in talking with the Military recruiters.
Thanks again for your words.
Thanks again for your words.
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SFC Charles S.
No problem. I hope that you are able to see past one seemingly errant recruiter and continue to assist. I would have loved to have a COI such as yourself while I was recruiting. Charlie Mike!
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GySgt (Join to see)
Great insight by all on this discussion. Great facts being presented. I believe you did the right thing. I would lean on a teacher like you when i was a recruiter, because you bring alot of insight to the overall mission of recruiting. It is often referred to as 36 one month wars. When I was a SNCOIC, my recruiters would much rather be in full combat again in Fallujah (which they were in). It is a demanding enviorment where one minute you are awesome and the next you are the worst thing on earth. Sometimes you ride that roller coaster many times in a day. Bottomline it is to the individual recruiter to accomplish his mission his way within reason. He will prescreen the applicant to make sure he is basically qualified and then MEPS takes it from there. Kids are not perfect, many have roadblocks and lots of them overcome them. Lots of them never will. A good amount of the nations youth have been changed for the better for joining the military. Some will never change. It's hit or miss. The one great benefit is having a greating influencer like yourself in the school to provide those insights. Keep up the good work.
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