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Is it my way of thinking, or is this the "New"Army?
One son went in with an open mind, was thrilled when he got assigned to a prestigious unit, and has since been burned out by the leadership in his unit. He decided months ago he wasn't reenlisting, based on the same leadership. Was given four days notice that he had to attend the E-5 board, which he was given no help on, and he did not pass. To cap it off, today he was given a bar to reenlistment for not passing the board. Is my thinking wrong, or is this a fouled up unit? Hi
One son went in with an open mind, was thrilled when he got assigned to a prestigious unit, and has since been burned out by the leadership in his unit. He decided months ago he wasn't reenlisting, based on the same leadership. Was given four days notice that he had to attend the E-5 board, which he was given no help on, and he did not pass. To cap it off, today he was given a bar to reenlistment for not passing the board. Is my thinking wrong, or is this a fouled up unit? Hi
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Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 3
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Respectfully, I’m sure there is more to the story. There’s always the soldiers version, the units version, and then the truth is somewhere in the middle.
If he decided 4 months ago he wasn’t reenlisting, is it possible that maybe he wasn’t motivated for the board or give it a 100% effort? Furthermore, if he’s not re-enlisting, a bar to reenlist shouldn’t matter? Also, see AR 601-280, ch 8-4, d. (19)(e)(f). It would appear the commander can initiate a bar to reenlist if your son is not competitive for promotion.
The Army is certainly capable of doing lousy things to joes. But as described, there isn’t enough information to determine if your son is in a f*cked off unit or not.
If he decided 4 months ago he wasn’t reenlisting, is it possible that maybe he wasn’t motivated for the board or give it a 100% effort? Furthermore, if he’s not re-enlisting, a bar to reenlist shouldn’t matter? Also, see AR 601-280, ch 8-4, d. (19)(e)(f). It would appear the commander can initiate a bar to reenlist if your son is not competitive for promotion.
The Army is certainly capable of doing lousy things to joes. But as described, there isn’t enough information to determine if your son is in a f*cked off unit or not.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT Daniel Dennin - respectfully.. yes, it’s a ‘may’, not ‘shall’. Meaning, he may do as he sees fit if the soldier is not competitive for promotion.
Honestly, four days for a board isn’t unheard of, and it’s more than enough time. It’s not the MCATs we’re talking about here. The E5 boards are asking questions that soldiers who are ready for promotion should already know. If a soldier has to cram study to acquire the requisite knowledge and information to become an NCO, a soldier probably isn’t ready to be an NCO.
The commander is probably taking his leaders’ word. You’re taking your sons word. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. However, if there is a constant that holds through any era, it’s that the Army almost always wins, regardless of what actually happened. Respectfully, you haven’t provided enough information for a neutral party to determine if your sons unit is jacked up or not. But from what you have described, it doesn’t seem to be so.
Honestly, four days for a board isn’t unheard of, and it’s more than enough time. It’s not the MCATs we’re talking about here. The E5 boards are asking questions that soldiers who are ready for promotion should already know. If a soldier has to cram study to acquire the requisite knowledge and information to become an NCO, a soldier probably isn’t ready to be an NCO.
The commander is probably taking his leaders’ word. You’re taking your sons word. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. However, if there is a constant that holds through any era, it’s that the Army almost always wins, regardless of what actually happened. Respectfully, you haven’t provided enough information for a neutral party to determine if your sons unit is jacked up or not. But from what you have described, it doesn’t seem to be so.
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SFC (Join to see)
Your son's leadership is misinterpreting the new changes to the promotion policy. The new policy eliminates the commanders ability to decline soldiers being integrated into the automatic list, now called the mandatory integration list. The only way to prevent them from becoming promotable is to bar them. Also, they are required - may not decline - to attend the promotion board once they are first eligible in the primary zone. They also are not required to be barred just for failing the board and can go to the board repeatedly while in the primary zone.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SGT Daniel Dennin - I didn't let any soldier go before an NCO Board without showing me and the other SGTs in the platoon he could handle hisself.
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SGT Daniel Dennin
Exactly- we made sure they knew how the board worked, were ready to enter with confidence, do their D&C, and handle the questions. No, it didn't always work out as well as we hoped, but the board was able to tell what was competence and what was just nerves.
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A bar is a rehabilitative tool. When the commander barred him did he say he could overcome the bar or not?
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SGT Daniel Dennin
They did give a list of things he'd have to do to have the bar removed. The bar really is pointless, just another little game that make sure he leaves with a bad impression of the unit, and other troops see as their future if they choose not to stay in. Goes on top of demanding a PT test before approving terminal leave that starts in December. His last PT test was the first week of August.
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LTC Jason Mackay
SGT Daniel Dennin Your son should have been asked directly if he can overcome the bar. If he said no, he’d be out. If he said he could, then he has the list. I don’t think this is all the details. It takes a lot to out right fail a board. Often it is the board president asking why they are the board. If it’s something like they made me and I’m getting out, that’s it. There is a set number of points. How many points did he get?
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SGT Daniel Dennin
I'm not sure how many points they ended up giving him, or if they even asked if he felt he could overcome the bar. From the time that he got there, the leadership seems slightly challenged. One platoon sergeant was relieved, another was put in place for a few months and just seemed to coast along till his orders came through. The latest one seems to want nothing more than 300s on PT tests. At one point, they made my son responsible for basically babysitting his suite-mate until chapter paperwork was completed instead of having a team leader or squad leader monitor him. They've farmed my son out several times to the brigade and division staff (received AAMs from both for his going the extra mile) and took forever to schedule him for Air Assault School (on same post).
I used to see this in other units when I was in and was fortunate that in the one unit where we had poor leadership at the company and platoon levels, the squad leaders handled things correctly and finally got the battalion involved, which gave us major changes in leaders and leadership attitudes. Every other unit I was in had very competent NCOs and when I moved into leadership, I was able to go off great examples. When we had soldiers not planning to reenlist, there was a serious effort to find out if it was because of other plans, if the Army just wasn't their thing, or if there was a leadership factor that wasn't right. Regardless of why the soldier wasn't reenlisting, we respected their decision and made sure they left knowing we valued their hard work (when appropriate).
I used to see this in other units when I was in and was fortunate that in the one unit where we had poor leadership at the company and platoon levels, the squad leaders handled things correctly and finally got the battalion involved, which gave us major changes in leaders and leadership attitudes. Every other unit I was in had very competent NCOs and when I moved into leadership, I was able to go off great examples. When we had soldiers not planning to reenlist, there was a serious effort to find out if it was because of other plans, if the Army just wasn't their thing, or if there was a leadership factor that wasn't right. Regardless of why the soldier wasn't reenlisting, we respected their decision and made sure they left knowing we valued their hard work (when appropriate).
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If he wants to stay in, just visit a recruiter after he gets out. Get a different unit. Just my useless two cents worth.
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SGT Daniel Dennin
That isn't really the case. He has no desire to stay in, regardless of unit. Too much BS from the unit, regardless of how hard he worked. The bar would take a waiver, even to join a reserve or guard unit.
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SPC Steven Depuy
When I was young, and decided to get out, I felt the same way. As life went past, and I looked back on my career in the service, and the things I did. I realized I was a pain in the ass to those people who I felt were out to get me, and things I did hurt peoples career above me. But maybe thats just me, and he didn't do anything to make them feel like that. I did say my two cents was useless.
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