Posted on Mar 19, 2016
Can a CSM deny orders for a leadership school such as BLC or ALC just because you don't get a 70 in each PT event?
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I'm sure they can deny an extra school like air assault but I feel like as long as you meet the army standard of 60 in each event he can't deny a leadership school and halt your career
Posted in these groups: 
CSM
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Advanced Leaders Course (ALC formerly BNCOC)
NCOES
CSM Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC) Advanced Leaders Course (ALC formerly BNCOC) NCOES
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 167
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CSM Mike Maynard
CSM (Join to see) - you could prevent them and they would be a no-show without a DA deferral/deletion. DA does not grant deferral/deletion for failing to meet a unit goal.
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Just in case nobody else has said it yet, there is a significant difference between being denied training and not being the one selected for an open slot -- and the latter would fall well within the reasonable discretion of a senior NCO.
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I'm not sure about the system today, but just a few years back it was all about "allotted slots" for schools. If there was just one slot available and the difference between the NCOs vying for that slot was a 210 vs 300+ PT score - well, the choice would be simple for a CSM.
In many cases 1SG won't allow an NCO to attend a school if they are only hitting the 210 mark - remember some schools are more stringent in their testing standards (especially PT) and a 1SG or CSM might want to ensure you don't arrive at the school, BOLO the PT test and then find yourself back home on day one, which is a BIG black eye for the unit and it's leadership.
My advice - focus on making a point to leadership by hitting the 270+ mark. It shows drive and determination - not too mention you're not only competing school slots.
Good luck and stay determined.
In many cases 1SG won't allow an NCO to attend a school if they are only hitting the 210 mark - remember some schools are more stringent in their testing standards (especially PT) and a 1SG or CSM might want to ensure you don't arrive at the school, BOLO the PT test and then find yourself back home on day one, which is a BIG black eye for the unit and it's leadership.
My advice - focus on making a point to leadership by hitting the 270+ mark. It shows drive and determination - not too mention you're not only competing school slots.
Good luck and stay determined.
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The only time I barely passed a PT test was when I had the flu and still took it. Still managed to max out on sit-ups and push-ups but the run was AWFUL!Closest I came to 300 was 298, 2 seconds off! In the 82nd we didn't get specifically tested for PNCO/CA, we were just told we were going. For RECONDO there was a preliminary PT test, though.
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Can he or should he? He should. If you can only score 70 points on an APFT event... should be going to any leadership course? SFC(P) (Join to see)
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Going to School is required now to maintain your status and to keep your rank and also if you want to advance in rank, So If you turn it down it isn't in your best interest.
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I would like to thank the chain of command and CSMs who do ensure high standards. Those aiming low, will always be low and wonder why others got promoted. Now that I have twice retired from the Army and a taxpayer, I want the CSMs to ensure the soldier going to school can EXCEED the standards. Those who can only meet the standard 30 days out do not show enough motivation to exceed standards, are the ones that will fail 30 days later, and cost us taxpayers round trip tickets. I have a RECOMMENDATION: Allow the "meets standards" soldier to attend, if they sign an agreement that failure of their PFT at school will cause them to incur the cost of TDY, and travel cost. Yes, that could be a big gamble. If you do not like it, exceed the standards.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt Joseph Baptist - What are leaders for? In your opinion? Are they to sent the standards, are they just to follow the regulation. In combat to you sit in a fighting hole and read? Probably not. If it is all in the books and that commanders have no job of achieving standards for his organization.....I say we remove all leadership positions and put an AI computer like Alexa (improved) and she will issue old commands.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt Joseph Baptist - If you can not get 60 on the APFT you should not be in the Army. That is the level to kick them out. Should we have other levels for schools or benefits?
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt Joseph Baptist - What is the job or duty of BN and BDE commanders? Do you think that a Division commander can impose additional standards? Could they require a 12 mile ruck march every month with everyone completing it? What about a clean desk policy in a staff HQ? (I hated that! But with classified ops it is good.)
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
I would see nothing wrong with setting higher standards for those representing the unit. Believe me, the Marine Corps has high standards for those going to an external school. The first commandment is to never embarrass the Corps.
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Most commands should be requiring the 70 points in each event. It gives you a cushion.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SFC (Join to see) - who gets decide what the cushion is? What if one CSM thinks it should be 80s another 90s? When every CSM gets to decide what someone has to do to go, then there is no standard. If 70 "should be required", then the Army would have put that in the regulation. They don't, they say "not flagged".
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SFC Olivero Rodriguez
Well said CSM, I totally agree, I saw to many screw-up get promoted, and that made me mad every time. That was one of the reasons why I just did 20 years in the Army, and retired before I hurt some body, those soldiers that work for me when they got promote they knew there jobs, I was very proud of the ones that achieved above their peers.
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