Posted on Mar 19, 2016
Can a CSM deny orders for a leadership school such as BLC or ALC just because you don't get a 70 in each PT event?
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I'm sure they can deny an extra school like air assault but I feel like as long as you meet the army standard of 60 in each event he can't deny a leadership school and halt your career
Posted in these groups: 
CSM
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Advanced Leaders Course (ALC formerly BNCOC)
NCOES
CSM Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC) Advanced Leaders Course (ALC formerly BNCOC) NCOES
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 167
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By requiring soldiers to have at least a 70 a little cushion is built in and it means you should hopefully be able to get at least 60 points once you get to the school. I don't have a problem with this being the standard for National Guard soldiers, especially since there are limited slots. That said, if a school doesn't require an APFT then a unit should not be requiring a soldier to pass one prior to attending.
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Yes...he has to sign off on your pre-execution checklist. If he feels you will fail, he won't send you.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SSG (Join to see) - the command doesn't have the authority to delete/defer someone from attending a DA managed school (ALC/SLC/etc). The command can only request a deletion/deferral from DA and then must provide documentation of an issue (temp profile, family emergency, etc) that prevents attendance - not meeting an arbitrary APFT goal of a unit doesn't qualify as one of those reasons.
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CSM (Join to see)
I believe that you are correct. We are probably lucky that more soldiers do not do Congressional s on their units for things like this.
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CSM Mike Maynard
CSM (Join to see) - I've seen IGs advise against these local policies that apply an arbitrary APFT goal to determine attendance for DA managed schools.
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im gonna say yes because somebody who only does the marginal, may fail and it will reflect on the unit and its leaders if that person fails at school, so if you want it prove it, go for the gold not the bronze
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CSM (Join to see)
They may fail, an I agree that is WHY they are doing it. But, is it right?
If your daughter is a girl scout and they tell her that if she can sell 100 boxes, she will get an award. So she sells 100 boxes. But they do not give her an award, because one box was sold to grandma, and we all know that that was not exactly a real hard sale. If that fair? NO!
If your daughter is a girl scout and they tell her that if she can sell 100 boxes, she will get an award. So she sells 100 boxes. But they do not give her an award, because one box was sold to grandma, and we all know that that was not exactly a real hard sale. If that fair? NO!
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MSG (Join to see)
right or wrong do we want marginal leaders or do we want the best, just because its your time to be promoted, doesnt mean your ready, i saw way too much of this in the last 10 years, soldiers promoted without tis, or tir, just to fill a slot, maturity and experiance, lead by example
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I've seen this in the last year in Alabama. The explanation we were given was that there was such a high rate of people sent home for PT failures. They figure that if you can score a 210 on your PT test 30 days out then you should be good to go when you get to the school.
It's a funding issue more than anything. They spend the limited resources to send someone only to have the individual come home early because of PT and that was wasted money and a wasted slot.
It's a funding issue more than anything. They spend the limited resources to send someone only to have the individual come home early because of PT and that was wasted money and a wasted slot.
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SFC(P) (Join to see) - If a CSM is reviewing several candidates, they may have to get into the weeds in order to create separation. To this, "standard" does NOT equal "expectation" --especially if the command is going to pay to send someone to school.
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It depends. I know that in my counselling statement it had that per ar if a Soldier fails any school, they must wait one year, and if the failure was due to apft failure they must achieve a 70 in each event before they can be considered again. I am unsure of the reg, however I'll Google it.
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