Posted on Feb 28, 2022
Can a CSM go into POV’s without the owner present?
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So our BN CSM walked through our barracks parking lot, and began going into POVs and looking around them and inside of them while the owner is not present.
I'm curious if he is allowed to do that, I haven't found any regs saying he can or cannot do that, does anyone have any insight?
I'm curious if he is allowed to do that, I haven't found any regs saying he can or cannot do that, does anyone have any insight?
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 48
I believe that nearly (if not every) base or post has a sign at each entrance that advises that entry into the government post makes people and vehicles "subject to search" ("and siezure"), so the answer to this question is most likely "Yes"! ...and I echo the question below, "Why would (anyone) leave their POV unlocked?"
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SPC (Join to see)
Respectfully, I dont think anyone including myself has disputed the posted sign, however, that doesn't give an enlistedman, regardless of rank the authorization to enter a POV, locked or unlocked without permission, those search and seizures apply to MPs, with probable cause and other stipulations
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SFC Clark Adams
I am sure there must be a reasonable clear circumstance as justification for the search by lawfully appointed individuals. Some random NCO taking it upon himself to enter a POV because he found an unlocked door is not a legally or lawfull sufficent justification.
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Look at the sign posted at every military installation that gives the commander authorization to search and control everything within the limits of his command for the health safety and welfare of such.
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SPC (Join to see)
Ahh yes, the ever elusive CSM Commander, I always forgot that they are field grade officers just on the enlisted side (I'm being sarcastic)
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POV, PRIVATE OWNED VEHICLE, Enuff said. I'd punch his lights out or give him or her a free ambulance ride to the hospital. They don't pay my car payments or insurance policy
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Now, idk if it’s changed or not, but, when I was in 1979 to 2000, there was a sign posted at every entry to a military base that stated ALL vehicles are subject to search and seizure ( or words to that effect) What I know wasn’t written was WHO could or couldn’t do that. It was naturally presumed that any one could do so. I remember a drug check was order for my battalion, ( dogs and so on) and people with cars had to open up their cars and let Fido sniff around them. We were all outside so the dogs could do what they wanted inside. So, I’m standing there with a brand new car ( to me) that I had purchase from someone else who just left the the military yesterday. Bought the car from him after I drove him to the airport to leave. That was my test drive. Guess who’s car Fido alerted on? That’s right. That of course is a different subject. However, do you know the reason for this senior person doing the search? It’s a SENIOR personnel searching. I’ve had my fair share of incompetent NCOs leading me. Never had an incompetent Senior NCO lead me. They just don’t get that rank if they are incompetent. Most of them are laid back. They don’t have to be the dick in situations any more unless it absolutely calls for it. Most senior NCOs genuinely care about the well being of the troops. Maybe this person was a dirt bag and this was the time to mail them. You don’t know, you can’t judge. I know I’m not gonna act unless it calls for me to act. During my time in, the CQ or Duty NCO on up had the right to inspect anything at anytime.
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You give up some rights to privacy when you enlist without question. But just because you have a batch of stripes on your arm you don't suddenly inherit the right to violate your 4th Amendment rights or other constitutional rights. If you disagree I ask whether it would be ok if this CSM were to enter your base housing because he wanted to?
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My only experience is on high security FBM Submarine bases, and it's right there in black and white as you go in - entry onto the base constitutes right to search.
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Suspended Profile
So...ANYONE can walk up to the Base Commanders quarters and walk in and start searching his quarters. Even a cook in the dining facility.
CDR Joseph Ruckman
MAJ Steve Warnerski - don't be absurd. Why would a cook in the dining facility be conducting a search of anywhere?
The question was about POVs on base. I'm pretty sure the sign I mentioned pertained primarily to vehicles entering the base, but I'm also fairly certain that quarters are subject to search as well. I know the barracks were, and the on-base officer housing I lived in was. The places on-base that I lived were never searched, but they were subject to it and I agreed to that as part of living there.
The question was about POVs on base. I'm pretty sure the sign I mentioned pertained primarily to vehicles entering the base, but I'm also fairly certain that quarters are subject to search as well. I know the barracks were, and the on-base officer housing I lived in was. The places on-base that I lived were never searched, but they were subject to it and I agreed to that as part of living there.
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CDR Joseph Ruckman
MAJ Steve Warnerski - see SFC Michael Hasbun's photo of just such a sign, below. That's pretty much what the Navy signs I'm referring to said as well.
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Suspended Profile
CDR Joseph Ruckman - Why would a csm go wandering around a parking lot - which ANYONE can park in - and start searching cars? ONE more example of the uselessness of 70% of E9s in the military.
You're in the service and must know about all the dirtbags that surround you. Yet you leave your vehicle unsecured. Really?
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SFC Clark Adams
So your civilian friend visiting you has their car opened and entered and you are okay with it? I don't think so.
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