Posted on Dec 20, 2017
SPC Automated Logistical Specialist
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Posted in these groups: D2d98f7c OrdersEnlisted logo EnlistedBd5a6159 Cell Phones
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Responses: 19
SGM Erik Marquez
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Edited 5 y ago
Confiscate legal personal property? NO.
But absolutely order the SM to not use it, have in their hand in any way shape or form during duty hours unless on a prescribed and authorized break.
And if the SM is so inclined, Id be happy to take it off your hands and store it for you so do not run afoul of that requirement...... Your choice Soldier,,,, but you have been given a lawful order.. If you so much as fall down and have the phone fall out of your pocket and into your hand.. you are going to have problems.
So what is your preference? Maintain it and not touch it? or lock it and drop it in this box here till lunch time?

That said you did not provide much in way of context.
Is the SM and NCO standing near a restricted area that phones are not allowed?
Has the phone been used in a manner that violates policy, regulations, a lawful order?
Is the NCO providing what may technically be not allowed, but it is a leadership decision in effort of dealing with an issue short of UCMJ?

I did that a fair amount for minor infractions of the bone head nature..... "You can deal with me and no complaints or you can deal with the commander and UCMJ..which is it and you can not change your mind after"

I only offered that on things that no one got hurt, no crime committed and no malice intended.
Drunk SM peed on the company "rock" last night
Pissed off SM through a wrench in the MP, broke a window
SM backed up a vehicle without a ground guide in an empty parking lot at night and hit a pole.
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PV2 Construction Equipment Repairer
PV2 (Join to see)
5 y
SGM Erik Marquez SGM do you know the regulation that states this?
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
5 y
PV2 (Join to see) - Regulation that states what? That an NCO is authorized and required to enforce policy, regulations rules and guidelines?

If you have not yet read my first post on the topic please do, if still a question , be specific... what is it you are asking.

Thanks
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CSM William Everroad
CSM William Everroad
5 y
I had a PSG who was having the same problem with phones. The LT banned their use during all training exercises and offered a secure lockbox for everyone to drop it in. They were never put in a position where they felt they had to confiscate the phones, but did deal with a couple who violated the direct order which was quickly resolved.
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SSgt Charles Freeman
SSgt Charles Freeman
>1 y
It's Article 134.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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I can see a number of situations where this might occur.
Most of them involve being told to put the damned thing away and concentrate on the task at hand... and SPC Tentpeg not getting the message.
As a rule, I don't lightly take things away from people. It breeds resentment. And it makes the subordinate feel like a child.
But I do hand out opportunities for quality time with some Sr NCOs if Joe can't figure it out the easy way.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
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Really need more information before giving a ye or nay on this one. As far as the word order is concerned, under the correct circumstances this is entirely warranted. Many people have already posted that an order cannot be given by an NCO, they are mistaken. There are two kinds of orders, direct and lawful. Direct orders can only be given by officers, however, lawful orders can be given by NCOs. Under certain circumstances, it could be a lawful order to surrender a personal cellular device.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
>1 y
SGT Joseph Gunderson I think you'll find, no one commissioned or non commission can confiscate personal property "just because" If its evidence of a crime? Sure? If it is an unauthorized item in a secure and restricted area? You bet.
Is it in the training classroom being a distraction? NOPE, you simply give them an order not to use it again, if said order is violated, now you have justification.

Same with car keys...and thats always been an issue, we do POV inspections , find no valid insurance...and some well meaning leader says "Give me your Keys" That is a big no no..... Order them not to drive or allow the vehicle to be driven until prof of valid insurance is provided ...absolutely.
Im really very familiar with this issue as, I was one of those leaders .. It was a good idea at the time and done to protect the SM.. but still shown to me why legally wrong.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT Joseph Gunderson
>1 y
I understand, that is why I said that under certain circumstances it could be done.
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Can a Senior NCO order a lower enlisted (Private) to hand over their personal cell phone?
Capt Daniel Goodman
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Ya know, that's a really interesting question...not a clue as to the answer, obv, though, as I'd said, an interesting question nonetheless, certainly....
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SSG Edward Tilton
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Didn't have none of those fancy cell phones in my day. I would tell the troops that the cell phones were a distraction and were not to be in the training area. Then I would drop hints as to why no one can have a phone.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
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Edited >1 y ago
The noncom can direct, but not order anything except burgers and fries. Orders are relegated to commissioned and warrant officers of all grades.

Remember this opening sentence? "You are hereby directed to report to your Selective Service representative . . ."

Must've been a noncom writing that letter.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
SFC Greg Bruorton
>1 y
Perhaps you two are correct, but I was relying on the instruction received while attending the 3rd Army NCO Academy in 1963 and the NCO Guide that was like a Bible for us. The "rest is history" as usually said.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
>1 y
SFC Greg Bruorton - It may have been that way in 1963,,,Id have to find old copies of regs and MCM to be sure.. But i can tell you since 1985 an NCO can issue an order legally.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
SFC Greg Bruorton
>1 y
SGM Erik Marquez - Thank you, Sergeant Major! I stand corrected, knowing much has changed since my retirement in 1980. My wife says I'm through with directing and ordering, unless it is directing a choir at church or elsewhere and ordering her a good fish dinner.
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
>1 y
SFC Greg Bruorton - I see where you're coming from. I do think that was the case "back in the day" as they say. I know as of '89 when I enlisted, the MCM allows for NCO's to issue legally binding orders (so long as they are lawful and meet the Commander's intent) and are enforceable under UCMJ action. Punitive actions still reside with the Officers. That hasn't changed anyway.

No harm, no foul SFC. I'm sure more than a few things have changed since I retired eight years ago as well.
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SSgt Charles Freeman
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It's Article 134. I know I'm late to the party, but damn! If you have a phone and you can't have a phone and do your duty like you're supposed to you're gonna have to put the phone somewhere you can't get to it. Why is this even a question? What is happening in the military? The military has rules, and order, and discipline! If you don't like that crap don't enlist! Go find a job in the real world that'll let you play with your phone half the damn day!
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CW4 Craig Urban
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He can order him to turn it off and go back to the barracks and put under lock and key
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SP5 Thomas Jameson
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Was troop issued that phone? Answer yes. Did troop buy the phone on his own? Answer non-military issue, not approved. Yes.
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SFC Mark Loaiza
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Yes, depending on the situation.
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