Posted on Jul 22, 2016
Can a SGT be pinned SSG without ALC if in the IDES process?
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(EDIT 2: I've gotten great feedback (mostly) and have addressed the issue with my chain of command and HRC. I knew I would retire/separate at the promotion list grade if my MEB results in discharge, but what I found out is that being in the IDES process "holds my spot." If I am retained, I can then go to ALC and will be promoted upon completion. My main concern was that if I AM retained, I would miss that chance, but HRC has confirmed that I will be given the opportunity to attend the school and pin the rank if I'm not separated/retired. Thanks to most everyone for the great feedback and support. I'm officially un-following this thread, so I'll probably miss any further responses.)
(EDIT: Yes, it's about me. Also, I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm not whining about an unfair system, I'm not griping over what I feel is owed to me, I'm just trying to understand the letter of the law to determine if it's worth further effort or if I should just go to my VA exams, take my rating, and call it a day. Please keep the hooah hooah suck it up rhetoric to a minimum, I'm genuinely just trying to get meaningful advice :) )
Scenario: a solider makes cutoff for promotion to E6, but does not show up on the by-name list and is told it's because they have not been to ALC. Said soldier has been in the IDES/MEB/PEB process pending VA exams and ratings to determine if a medical separation/retirement is to occur and therefore cannot attend ALC. I have scoured the MILPER messages and AR 600-8-19. According to AR 600-8-19, the only requirement for promotion to SSG is completion of WLC/BLC, but the MILPER and the new STEP system says ALC is a requirement. The regulation states that IDES exempts the soldier from requirements such as weapons, APFT, and SRR, but not a word is spoken about ALC.
I do realize that if the soldier is promotable at the time of separation/retirement, they will be compensated and separated/retired at the promotion list grade. That's something, at least, but it's kinda crappy in my opinion that they get denied the promotion otherwise for something that may be no fault of their own.
I feel a combat-related injury that initiates an MEB/PEB shouldn't keep a soldier from getting pinned to a rank they've earned, not because they have chosen not to go to ALC, not because they have failed ALC, but because their injury has prevented it. I understand the reasoning, not filling a slot with a soldier that will otherwise not be able to serve the position or is going to potentially separate shortly afterwards, but if there's no concession or exception it feels like the soldier is being punished for shedding blood for their country.
(EDIT: Yes, it's about me. Also, I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm not whining about an unfair system, I'm not griping over what I feel is owed to me, I'm just trying to understand the letter of the law to determine if it's worth further effort or if I should just go to my VA exams, take my rating, and call it a day. Please keep the hooah hooah suck it up rhetoric to a minimum, I'm genuinely just trying to get meaningful advice :) )
Scenario: a solider makes cutoff for promotion to E6, but does not show up on the by-name list and is told it's because they have not been to ALC. Said soldier has been in the IDES/MEB/PEB process pending VA exams and ratings to determine if a medical separation/retirement is to occur and therefore cannot attend ALC. I have scoured the MILPER messages and AR 600-8-19. According to AR 600-8-19, the only requirement for promotion to SSG is completion of WLC/BLC, but the MILPER and the new STEP system says ALC is a requirement. The regulation states that IDES exempts the soldier from requirements such as weapons, APFT, and SRR, but not a word is spoken about ALC.
I do realize that if the soldier is promotable at the time of separation/retirement, they will be compensated and separated/retired at the promotion list grade. That's something, at least, but it's kinda crappy in my opinion that they get denied the promotion otherwise for something that may be no fault of their own.
I feel a combat-related injury that initiates an MEB/PEB shouldn't keep a soldier from getting pinned to a rank they've earned, not because they have chosen not to go to ALC, not because they have failed ALC, but because their injury has prevented it. I understand the reasoning, not filling a slot with a soldier that will otherwise not be able to serve the position or is going to potentially separate shortly afterwards, but if there's no concession or exception it feels like the soldier is being punished for shedding blood for their country.
Promotions
SSG
SGT
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 24
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I've not been in for awhile. So can't really comment. Not sure on the new regulations.
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Just to help you out, I did read in a regulation , I can't think which regulation it was that you could attend school on a profile if it was deployment related. I know I couldn't attend school on a temporary profile. I don't know if your injury prevent you from doing the walk or bicycle. I met people in ALC who had a profile for pushups and I think sit ups also, but he still passed. When I find where I saw it, I can let you know. Don't give up just yet , The high % you will get from VA is undeniable. .....
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SSG Jim Beverly
I appreciate that, but unfortunately the issue isn't the profile, it's the travel restriction. During the course of the VA exams I can't take leave or TDY, so even with my ability to pass a PT test with an alternate event, I can't actually go to the school. :(
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Jim Beverly - No problem sir, just glad I was able to assist. But I hate to hear the news........ The good side is, that you more than likely will be medically retired as an E6 and the super good news is, if you get 100%, you will be making 3 Grand a month, but make sure if you do get 100% from VA , make sure it's where you can still work...... what is your MOS??
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You should be focused on getting out and getting a career started Sergeant. Your time in the Military may be coming to an end. To answer your question though, No, you have to attend the required NCOES per that pay grade.
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SSG Jim Beverly
I agree, that's the conclusion I came to a few days ago after gathering all the intel and advice I did.
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In addition to the other comments, you have to have at least 12 months remaining on your service contract too.
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SSG Jim Beverly
The NCOES requirement, as I've learned, is iron-clad and cannot be waived. However, the SRR requirement is waived in the event of a medical separation, that part is specifically laid out in AR 600-8-19. Sadly, as I do not have ALC, I won't get pinned, but that's the reason. If I did have ALC, the SRR wouldn't have prevented it, according to what I've been able to confirm.
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As of January this year, the promotion requirements changed to require NCOES prior to promotion.
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The army is wearing out people who are not medically for there was an article posted about it in the army times. And if your going to be separated why get promoted a ssg is a squad leader and a mentor. I have only ever had 1 real team leader and 1 real squad leader they were the standered and they were mentors. If you cannot be a mentor and a leader to lower enlisted then you should get out sgt I'm sick of having NCO's that cant to there job
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SSG Jim Beverly
MED and QMP are two very different things. I'm not being 'weeded out,' I'm being assessed for a physical disability sustained in the line of duty while serving in Iraq. I've mentored and led dozens of soldiers in my time as an NCO, and while I appreciate your passion and desire for good leadership, it's a bit insulting to perceive your insinuation that because I may not be able to physically remain in uniform, I'm a poor leader. If you'd read my original post a bit more thoroughly you'd understand this was not a complaint or a battle for 'entitlement,' but a desire to understand the regulation to judge whether or not it was worth contesting. I'm sorry you've had poor leadership, but if you have been jaded to the point where you assume a combat injury MEB is in any way indicative of poor leadership, you might be in for a rough career.
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If you are pending medical seperation you will be pinned ssg regardless....
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SSG Jim Beverly
Yeah, it's looking more and more like that's going to be what happens, which I'm okay with. Just didn't know if there were any caveats or exceptions to the rule in the case of the IDES process. Just gonna keep doing my job the best I can and hold my head up until the VA makes its call :)
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