Posted on Jul 12, 2016
CW4 Brian Haas
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MSG Senior Maintenance Supervisor
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No, It is not in the enlisted area so they have to be counseled by an officer
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SGT Frank Pritchett
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I have a good story for this. In 1984 a 1st LT came into the Armament workshop and demanded that we work on his tank ahead of all our other jobs; when the shop NCOIC told him know he straight to the Chief Hinky desk and demanded that it be done ASAP. Again he was told no so the 1st LT told him to stand up and come to attention when speaking to an officer. Chief told us to stop all jobs and get his tank out of the workshop. Then Chief Henky went to DISCOM and turned in his resignation. When the tank was finished the 1st LT gave everyone a in the shop a public apology and Chief went to work for General Dynamics for the XM1 Tank project... 1984 Co. D 27th Maint. He was the best Warrant Officer I ever worked for.
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CW4 Brian Haas
CW4 Brian Haas
>1 y
At least he didn't tell the LT to get the hell out.
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SFC James Nallin
SFC James Nallin
>1 y
I was in 1973-1976 23rd Ord Det then it change to 44th Ord Co 27 th Maint Ban 1st Cav Div and change to E Co 27th Maint Bn we had 3 Chief Warrents I would love to see a E7 give a counseled statement anyone of them Game would be on ( I Love the OLD ARMY )
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SGT Frank Pritchett
SGT Frank Pritchett
>1 y
The New Army wishes they could train like the old Army only they have forgotten all the basic rules "Train Like we fight". I was in the 124th Maint. BN. C Co. from 75-77. If they new Army could train like that, then we wouldnt have so many PTSD.
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CW2 Mobility Officer
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NO!
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PO1 Jack Howell
PO1 Jack Howell
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Actually he/or she can through positional authority. He/she would still have to be mindful of the rank of the individual senior to him/her.
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SCPO Jason McLaughlin
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Either the SFC is a real tool, or the Command climate wherever you are is in the crapper. Whoever heard of a SNCO and CW/CWO not being able to have a sit-down/coffee if there is an issue that needs to be hashed out?
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SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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I was a platoon sergeant at a medical center with no platoon leader. Assigned to my platoon (should have been a detachment lol) was 118 Soldiers ranking from E1-O6. On a reqular basis counseled them on many different areas. Examples: Missed appointments, failure to report on time, creating a plan to ensure they don't lose leave days at the end of the FY, changes to policies, loss of military ID card, failure to maintain family care plan , failure to complete mandatory annual training. The list goes on. I didn't counsel them because I out ranked them or was thier direct supervisor, I was the soldier in the best position to ensure those Soldiers and Officers were being setup for success. And honestly E1-E7,O1-O3&O5-O6's were great to work with NEVER hassled me complained about being counseled by an E7 and were always professional. It was EVERY O4 (MAJ) that made my job very difficult.
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SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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So I a hospital company commanders are O3's and have soldiers from E1-O6 assigned to thier command. I was a platoon sergeant for one of those companies and on a reqular basis I had to counsel soldiers of ALL ranks for missing appointments, creating a plan to prevent the loss of leave at the end of the FY, I counseled multiple Officers for failure to report to work on time. I know the question was about WO but I would think the same would apply.
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CW2 Mobility Officer
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>1 y
Ridiculous...push it up the Chain; that is how it is supposed to work.
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SSG Cadre
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Only in rare circumstances where the WO is under that NCO. I am Cadre and squad leader at my WTU as a SSG, and my subordinate soldiers range from SFC, 1sg, CSM, Cpt, Cw2, and CW3. A fellow SSG Cadre of mine has an 0-6 under him. We always give them initial counselings and are directly in charge of them, and they fall in to my left in formation. We do not abuse our authority and show all customs and courtesies. Back to the original point, only in certain circumstances would someone counsel a soldier that out ranks them. Another example is I have been in units where the rear detachment 1sg was a SSG, but had several SFCs under him. In that case that SSG would counsel those who outrank him based on his position and authority.
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CW4 Brian Haas
CW4 Brian Haas
>1 y
They are still not subordinate to you.
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CW2 Mobility Officer
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>1 y
I am gathering that the WTU has a screwed up understanding of what supervision is; they are under you for administrative issues only. All misconduct issues pertaining to personnel that outrank you should be pushed up the Chain for proper handling.
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CW4 Brian Haas
CW4 Brian Haas
>1 y
I agree with Ana. Big difference between counselings at a WTU for admin things and events or trying to correct them. You say subordinate to you. Do you have them stand at parade rest? I say that tongue in cheek. No officer is a subordinate of an NCO. Period.
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SFC Jeff Couch
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All these years I was in my CSM was right that sniffing deaseal fuel was not harmful to me ( I think my hair might be growing back) < ----cracking up at these threads good one Chief
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SSgt Utilities Chief
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Yes! But it's not called a counseling statement. It's a Non-Punitive Letter of Correction (or, NPLOC). It's supposed to be a way for members of all ranks to communicate grievances to one another when a matter is too unapproachable to be done face-to-face. The intent is to inform, not discipline an individual and it does not get entered into any record jacket, nor does it strike against anyone, merely a letter to take home and think about how you are screwing up. It is the first step that if left unfixed will escalate to a request mast (if you are Navy/Marines, I'm sure the other branches have something similar) where you can take your grievances to a commanding officer directly without blocking or interception through the chain of command (which is most likely where the issue is).
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CWO4 Personnel Officer
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SSgt, that's incorrect. A member that is subordinate in rank to another member does not have the authority to issue a NPLOC. JAGMAN, Sect 0105. The issuing member must be senior and in the chain-of-command.
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CWO4 Personnel Officer
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A Marine has multiple ways to address a greviance to another member without filing a formal complaint. If we are speaking in terms of the EO program, then it would fall under the Informal Resolution System, which consists of writing the offender, addressing it orally to the offender, and third-party intervention.
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SSgt John Schoonmaker
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No......Way! A CW4 is an OFFICER plain and simple! We lost WO's in the AF....in fact, I would have stayed in if the AF still had that option. An officer is an officer...Warrant or otherwise. Nope! You cannot school a superior. Period. You have to talk to your Senior NCO about any perceived infraction, who in-turn goes to the Commander to deal with such. That person has a commission! Just understand this! No way. When I was an SP in the AF... I patrolled and followed a vehicle containing x2 pilots...of course, officers! I had to wake the OIC of SP to come make a DUI apprehension official... They walked...even though I watched them throw half-full beers out the window of their vehicle!!! Officers...especially pilots in the AF...are held to an insanely higher standard of protection in the AF. All that expensive training has its perks! An officer is an officer..........period!
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PO1 Jack Howell
PO1 Jack Howell
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Actually he/or she can through positional authority. He/she would still have to be mindful of the rank of the individual senior to him/her.
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