Posted on Oct 30, 2015
Can counselling chits be back dated to past events that weren't documented at the time?
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I know a sailor that is being told from their chain of command, that they are trying to send said sailor up to Captain's Mast. Right now they are making said sailor sign counselling chits for past events that they were already verbally counselled for and transpired over the past year. Is such a thing legal and does anyone know the instruction for it? The only thing I can find is:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1600Performance/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1600Performance/Pages/default.aspx
Navy
Punishment
Counseling
Article 15
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
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That would be like submitting a chit for leave today but back dating it for two weeks ago and then saying "But Chief! I told you two weeks ago!" I had a chain of command this shady once I learned to document everything after that.
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I think you got the answer here already. Any command that has to backdate anything, for any reason, just shows their own inability to get things done right. I'd consider finding a good command (split tour).
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Probably not legal, but certainly unethical. I'd request a court martial if possible as a good JAG lawyer would jump on this. Now if the command documented the counseling in their records, that might change things.
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I would talk to a JAG. What the command is doing sounds shady. My wife is a Commander in the CG as a JAG. This is the type of stuff they will help with and go to mast with you if need be.
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Not legal at all. If said Sailor was given verbal counseling, they have already had the issue addressed and can not be punished or change the course of action they had taken. Now they can mention the fact that he did receive verbal counselings for previous transgressions. But, if it happened multiple times, why wasn't something put in writing about the incidents.
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CPO Michael Burns
Wrong. First off, a counseling chit is NOT a punishment. It is documentation. It SHOULD be used to also document POSITIVE things. It is fuel for ranking boards as are negative chits fuel for showing a trend of substandard performance. As long as the signature date reflects the date it was signed, there is nothing wrong or illegal about it.
That being said, doing this for the sole purpose of justifying punishment is shady at best, and written documentation of the command's lack of leadership skills. If your command wants to take the "black eye", then it is important to be able to document a trend, in the case of FURTHER (not the current situation) infractions.
That being said, doing this for the sole purpose of justifying punishment is shady at best, and written documentation of the command's lack of leadership skills. If your command wants to take the "black eye", then it is important to be able to document a trend, in the case of FURTHER (not the current situation) infractions.
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I cannot see making a sailor sign a counselling chit from a previous event, discipline needs to be current and pertinent. It sounds like the leadership missed the opportunity to document a behavior that could have been identified and changed earlier. It is one thing being told you messed up, it is another seeing it written and knowing it is now a part of my permanent record, trust me, I know.
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I appreciate all the responses. Hopefully the service member gets some good advice from legal. I'll update when I know more.
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CMDCM (Join to see)
Legal office is where he needs to go however in my 28+ years issues that sailors did in the past and were verbally mentioned at COs mast were thrown out because there was no written documentation
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