Posted on Sep 2, 2020
Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?
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What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?
Platoon Sergeant
Platoon Leader
Commander
CCMSgt
NCO Academy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 254
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Totally unacceptable behavior. This needs to be reported up your COC. It seems that you have had the misfortune of landing in a pool of toxic leadership. I can almost guarantee that the squad leader's opinion on shaving profiles has been tainted by the platoon sergeant and maybe higher.
You will seldom here me give advice along these lines, but you've got some bad shit going on there. Get help before they fuck you over. If the platoon sergeant has already ignored your concern, go to the 1SG. If you don't get help there, keep going up the chain until you do.
Above all else, maintain your professionalism. Don't give anyone reason to ding you. Keep yourself squared away in all other aspects. This too shall pass. The overwhelming majority of NCOs in the military are fair and have the welfare of their troops as priority #1. Hang in there. Good luck.
You will seldom here me give advice along these lines, but you've got some bad shit going on there. Get help before they fuck you over. If the platoon sergeant has already ignored your concern, go to the 1SG. If you don't get help there, keep going up the chain until you do.
Above all else, maintain your professionalism. Don't give anyone reason to ding you. Keep yourself squared away in all other aspects. This too shall pass. The overwhelming majority of NCOs in the military are fair and have the welfare of their troops as priority #1. Hang in there. Good luck.
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Sgt Tee Organ
Agree completely. I have seen and been around a few rogue NCOs as a young buck, but there are those instances where there are trickle down influences that cascade into the situation. This is why I mentioned earlier to go back to medical and tell them look I'm having an issue following this because my squad leader is telling me to disregard or face punishment... Outside influence will be a great tool for leverage as well as working through the chain of command. After all you cant follow two contradictory rules at some point one is right and one is wrong. To that regard the situation is a candle lit at both ends, handle it at both ends. I have a pretty good idea once the 1stSgt hears about this it will be handled.
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Those of the male population doesn't know what others go through upon shaving. I knew of a few white soldiers who have had to get that profile.
As long as you are within your profile your good to go. Don't let your higher ups harness you. If it keeps up turn them in.
As long as you are within your profile your good to go. Don't let your higher ups harness you. If it keeps up turn them in.
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Aside from the EO issue, as was mentioned , keep it in regs and make sure your Commander approves the profile (I don’t know of a commander who would override a doctor’s recommendation, particularly a specialist like a dermatologist). With that said, I shared a house with a black officer. He had issues with razor bumps and he used shaving powder. You’ll need to let your face heal first, then if you haven’t tried it, try the powder. It gets rid of the hair without shaving (I believe it works similar to Nair that women use on there legs). Just be prepared because it doesn’t smell very good.
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If it is of medical necessity, the shaving profile provides for a medical accommodation. Failure to follow the accommodation violates your contract and should be reported through thorough documentation. Failure to follow the shaving profile accommodation can result in permanent facial scaring and infection, in which you could seek damages for. Here is the latest policy revision. https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/tbmed287.pdf
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I hope this has been resolved satisfactorily. However, if it is not, you can contact me and I will ensure it is resolved. The first thing you should do is not shave, but ensure you maintain standards for wearing the beard. The next thing you will need to do is make sure you do not talk back to your NCOs, whether it is in in front of anyone or in private. Don't say anything derogatory to your teammates about your NCOs. You don't need that coming down. When your NCO asks you to shave, tell him you cannot and show him a copy of the profile. When you need to, speak to the Platoon Leader. If your PL does not take care of it like your PSG should have, you can give your PL my information and I will find the time to set him straight. But work this through your chain of command as much as you can before taking it outside the CoC.
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CMSgt Marshall Ray
This spot on not only in this situation but the standard of conduct at all times.
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A shaving profile is issued ONLY for medical reasons which You had and No one has the authority to ignore what a Doctor has ordered. It seems IAW the Regulations You kept it within the length limits specified and allowed for that treatment to work. Your Squad Leader apparently fails to understand why it was allowed, because it was Medical Treatment prescribed by a MD, Medical Doctor and NOT an option. Unless the Medical people remove the order it is just that an order and actually that Squad Leader could have been subject to Disciplinary action Himself for His response. I've seem Doctors straighten out a few people Who had responded in such a manner about the force of a Medical waiver order. One man I worked with had the condition, it wasn't going away and He had a substance that He applied and removed with a butter knife which of course had no sharp edge, not being a Doctor I don't know if that would work with everybody though nor would I try to second guess them.
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So many black men have ingrown hairs because of shaving. The chemicals take time to work, and may irritate skin further. If more white petty officers could see what a black man goes through to look squared away, they might be more interested in his combat abilities rather than a pretty face.
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