Posted on Sep 2, 2020
Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?
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What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 254
I'll just say....don't try to use your shaving profile as an excuse to look like Rick Ross. This is the Army but we are still a professional organization. Also, like everyone else has said....REPORT THE COMMENTS TO THE 1SG AND EO! (And yes I too have a permanent shaving profile, but I do shave at least twice per calendar week. Not only because I am a Sr. NCO; but because I don't like looking raggedy because of an unlined beard.)
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No but they now have shaving creams that solve this problem. Get a second opinion about it and it is not just black people who have this. For awhile I had to make my own shaving cream to help. The kind that uses a brush and make sure your face is very wet. Dry skin can irritate the problem also.
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I have seen people of different ethnicities have shaving profiles. As everyone has said that comment is a direct violation and it does validate a complaint. Who knows how many Soldiers he has caused to end their career because he was toxic. If you don't want to file an EO complaint then ask your PSG to address it. That comment does not need to go without being properly addressed. Give your command a chance to correct this NCO's mental thinking of shaving profiles. No excuse but the guy may just be jealous that he can not get a shaving profile or that he simply can't grow one.
The swearing at the NCO, you should show that you are a better Soldier by maintaining your composure. I know it is hard and frustrating but right now it's just the proper thing to do even when someone else loses their bearings. I am not trying to bash you for it as I have lost my cool on higher up's multiple times but you have to do it in a (common saying) tactical way.
The profile is something once you receive it you must abide by it unless it is something you can work your way off of it. There is no if's about it.
The swearing at the NCO, you should show that you are a better Soldier by maintaining your composure. I know it is hard and frustrating but right now it's just the proper thing to do even when someone else loses their bearings. I am not trying to bash you for it as I have lost my cool on higher up's multiple times but you have to do it in a (common saying) tactical way.
The profile is something once you receive it you must abide by it unless it is something you can work your way off of it. There is no if's about it.
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No. Your squad leader's a dick. It happens. This is a real problem (both your SSG and your condition), but too often NCOs think your getting over somehow. Just wave that profile in his face, smile and carry on. Go up the chain of command if you have to, but keep it professional. You probably won't make Sergeant Major of the Army (who's too say not), but you can certainly enjoy a career if that's what you're looking for.
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PVT Jones you are a soldier. Keep yourself and your uniform neat and clean. Wear pressed uniforms when possible. However, do not violate your profile (keep a copy of that document with you during duty hours should you ever need it - neatly folded and inside a zip-lock). Your chain of command should be looking out for your health. You can ask other black soldier of longer service who also have shaving profile about the solutions they’ve found to help you in the garrison environment. However, forget about attempting to shave in the field. The last thing you need is an infection. If your 1SG sees that your a hard charger who also makes every effort possible to look professional, he/she will lookout for you if they are worthy of the rank and position they hold; the same goes for your CSM - they’ve seen everything and can tell who is busting their butt and who is shamming. Trust your NCOs. Good luck trooper!
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SSG (Join to see)
old systems will one day die out just like ear ring and nail polish policy for females...
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LTC Mo Vanderslice
SSG (Join to see) Don’t forget accommodations made for religious groups, like the Sikh. The Army is slow to adapt, but it does adapt.
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LTC Mo Vanderslice
SSG (Join to see) The Army is older than the US Constitution, changes take time or it takes a war involving drastic changes in lethality, like the gas weapons in WW I.
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I served in the 60's and I don't recall anything called a shaving profile. But I guess in todays friendlier PC military things are different.
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One of the Sergeants First Class addressed this part already when you let your squad leader know that you have a shaving profile and they got real unprofessional under their breath (you know what I'm referring to). THAT PART is an EO complaint because that part is straight-up BS! When he apologized and told you that you still need to shave, simply reminding him of the shaving profile should have been just fine. Adding the 4-letter word with -ING on the end of it was a bad idea because you did in fact disrespect an NCO. From what I've seen, your platoon sergeant was in the wrong for saying what they said as well because the Army DOES NOT just hand out shaving profiles to anyone. I applaud you for utilizing your NCO support channel as well. Best of luck in your situation.
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Sounds like a typical shitbag leader that uses his rank and authority because he hates his life!
Three things to remember,
1. Keep yourself in check at all times, use Chain of Command all the way up to the IG if you have to for legitimate complaints against this type of bullshit, write everything down, keep it organized and never tell anyone what you are writing down after the fact until it is time to use it, who witnessed anything, you know the 5 W's its all important when making a complaint even though sometimes it may not be a good idea at the time, but it can save your ass in the long run. One thing to keep in mind, the IG will always be for the Commander and not the Solider hence the reason I put number 3 down and you need to keep their information phone numbers address, etc. in your phone!
2. All Army Regulations pertaining to profiles, uniform and appearance, PT, Base Regulations as well, and everything else,
3. Your Congressman/woman and don't be afraid to use them because they have such great power Chain of Command will shit bricks when one comes down through Army channels but you better have everything documented as I mentioned in number 1!
Here is my little experience;
I have been in the Army for 31 years and in 2018 I had a stent put in due to bloackage and because I was on blood thinners for a year and couldn't shave without my face profusely slowly bleeding for hours all the time. I am a white guy so I caught a lot of flak even though the Army Medical Review gave me a permeant profile for shaving and even though I am not on blood thinners anymore. I pulled a year tour with ARNORTH in 2019-2020 and I had a shitbag SGM that stopped me in the courtyard on my first day there. I had a backpack over my shoulder, a briefcase in my left hand, (as I had to in-process), and a coffee mug in my right hand and he called me over to him and asked me who I was because he recognized the patch on my shoulder but not my face. I stopped and told him I was the new Security NCO and he said Okay glad to have you. Then I went about my business! He never questioned me about why I hadn't shaved, (it was well within regs) and almost a month later I get called up to my Chain of Command and get grilled by my supervisor and PLT SGT on how I disrespected shitbag SGM out in the courtyard outside of my office area but couldn't give me a date, time, or anything! The day in question I had been in my office with a civilian employee who works with me and pointed out to my supervisor and PLT SGT that there are cameras all over the facility inside, outside perimeter walls, parking lot, my office area, etc and no one has even came to my office the whole day. I told them all they would find from the time I ever started working there is see me drive in the parking lot, walk to the Quad, go to my office and not once will the cameras show anyone stopped me the whole time I have been on orders here, especially shitbag SGM that started making false claims!
Then weeks later shitbag SGM decided to call Yuma Arizona to verify if I went to military freefall school there and when they came back and said no record of me going to school there, shitbag SGM notified my Command that I needed to remove my freefall wings. My command went to the IG they all verified my record that I went to school, but I did it at Ft Bragg way back in the day! But shitbag SGM never came to me to ask me!
Long story short shitbag SGM kept up his BS trying to accuse me of other BS. My payback to him was finding security violations of his people bring cell phones into areas where classified information was being processed, (1st time violations myself and a civilian employee who worked with me caught 16 people with cell phones to include shitbag SGM on his personal cell phone talking, 8 open computers and unsecured CAC cards), (3 times after that kept finding more violations to include shitbag SGM not complying and I could and thought about removing his clearance for repeated violations).
So instead of just notifying the security channels of the violations and ARNORTH Command ignoring the issues, I also did a congressional on the whole matter and you should have seen the shit flying, not on my end, but its good to let the Congressman/woman, DoD and the Department of the Army to know about issues when you have legitimate issues against shitbag leaders when Chain of Command ignores it!
One thing you will learn in your career, Chain of Command usually protects their own and will and you are the lower ranking newbie and they will play it out that you are the shitbag soldier! That's why it is important to know the 3 things I mentioned above and not be afraid to use it!
Three things to remember,
1. Keep yourself in check at all times, use Chain of Command all the way up to the IG if you have to for legitimate complaints against this type of bullshit, write everything down, keep it organized and never tell anyone what you are writing down after the fact until it is time to use it, who witnessed anything, you know the 5 W's its all important when making a complaint even though sometimes it may not be a good idea at the time, but it can save your ass in the long run. One thing to keep in mind, the IG will always be for the Commander and not the Solider hence the reason I put number 3 down and you need to keep their information phone numbers address, etc. in your phone!
2. All Army Regulations pertaining to profiles, uniform and appearance, PT, Base Regulations as well, and everything else,
3. Your Congressman/woman and don't be afraid to use them because they have such great power Chain of Command will shit bricks when one comes down through Army channels but you better have everything documented as I mentioned in number 1!
Here is my little experience;
I have been in the Army for 31 years and in 2018 I had a stent put in due to bloackage and because I was on blood thinners for a year and couldn't shave without my face profusely slowly bleeding for hours all the time. I am a white guy so I caught a lot of flak even though the Army Medical Review gave me a permeant profile for shaving and even though I am not on blood thinners anymore. I pulled a year tour with ARNORTH in 2019-2020 and I had a shitbag SGM that stopped me in the courtyard on my first day there. I had a backpack over my shoulder, a briefcase in my left hand, (as I had to in-process), and a coffee mug in my right hand and he called me over to him and asked me who I was because he recognized the patch on my shoulder but not my face. I stopped and told him I was the new Security NCO and he said Okay glad to have you. Then I went about my business! He never questioned me about why I hadn't shaved, (it was well within regs) and almost a month later I get called up to my Chain of Command and get grilled by my supervisor and PLT SGT on how I disrespected shitbag SGM out in the courtyard outside of my office area but couldn't give me a date, time, or anything! The day in question I had been in my office with a civilian employee who works with me and pointed out to my supervisor and PLT SGT that there are cameras all over the facility inside, outside perimeter walls, parking lot, my office area, etc and no one has even came to my office the whole day. I told them all they would find from the time I ever started working there is see me drive in the parking lot, walk to the Quad, go to my office and not once will the cameras show anyone stopped me the whole time I have been on orders here, especially shitbag SGM that started making false claims!
Then weeks later shitbag SGM decided to call Yuma Arizona to verify if I went to military freefall school there and when they came back and said no record of me going to school there, shitbag SGM notified my Command that I needed to remove my freefall wings. My command went to the IG they all verified my record that I went to school, but I did it at Ft Bragg way back in the day! But shitbag SGM never came to me to ask me!
Long story short shitbag SGM kept up his BS trying to accuse me of other BS. My payback to him was finding security violations of his people bring cell phones into areas where classified information was being processed, (1st time violations myself and a civilian employee who worked with me caught 16 people with cell phones to include shitbag SGM on his personal cell phone talking, 8 open computers and unsecured CAC cards), (3 times after that kept finding more violations to include shitbag SGM not complying and I could and thought about removing his clearance for repeated violations).
So instead of just notifying the security channels of the violations and ARNORTH Command ignoring the issues, I also did a congressional on the whole matter and you should have seen the shit flying, not on my end, but its good to let the Congressman/woman, DoD and the Department of the Army to know about issues when you have legitimate issues against shitbag leaders when Chain of Command ignores it!
One thing you will learn in your career, Chain of Command usually protects their own and will and you are the lower ranking newbie and they will play it out that you are the shitbag soldier! That's why it is important to know the 3 things I mentioned above and not be afraid to use it!
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For one nobody can tell you to disregard a doctors orders. Only your doctor can release his/her orders if your situation has cleared up. However you must keep it groomed as close as possible to the flesh. There is creams, conditioners and razors that will help but not always. There is even trim clippers that can be used to make it like you shaved. But again not always. On thing, not all Black Men has this issue. I'm no doctor, but experienced it as a NCO why Black Males get bumps when shaving is because one is releasing hair follicles but instead of surfacing, the hair stays under the skin and grows in a Spiral configuration (ingrown hair) i.e. Afro. I hope this helped and best of luck brother.
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