Posted on Mar 16, 2021
SGT Infantryman
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I passed the board recently and now im being told i may have to be a CPL until i go to BLC or until i get back from ranger school. I dont want to take responsibility as a team leader and still get paid as a SPC. Can i deny a 4187 ?
Posted in these groups: 72918f9c PromotableStar PromotionsArmycpl CPL
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CW2 Bde Ew Tech
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If I was your BN CSM who approved you passing the board I'd undo it upon reading this. You want to be a NCO and be a Team Leader, have been approved to become one, but don't want to do the job until you get the $$$? That's not being a leader, that's not what an NCO does.
Being a Corporal is essentially being a SGT just without the extra $. Your unit wants you to do your new position while you wait to finish BLC - not to get cheap NCO labor out of you.
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SGT Tim Tobin
SGT Tim Tobin
1 y
When I first went into the Army the base salary was $91 a month.
Service is serving.with an attitude like that it looks like the military is not for you
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PV2 Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
PV2 (Join to see)
1 y
How about you get compensated for the job your tasked. You get promoted, get the pay. You're always going to be tasked to do so many things that aren't in your description. But a promotion in rank is easily able to give better pay. Fuck that mentality of earning this or doing it out of responsibility. You earned a promotion, you earned a raise.

As a civilian now, that won't fly. Military is a lifestyle as it is a job. By accepting it, you continue that negative mentality. It doesn't have to suck for sucks sake.
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SGT Nickolas Ortiz
SGT Nickolas Ortiz
1 y
PV2 (Join to see) - wow that’s selfish. A Corporal is a distinguished rank, you’re given more responsibilities and privilege. As an NCO, you gain the respect of your peers and leaders. YOU’RE NOT GETTING RICH IN THE MILITARY. Not taking the rank shows you have little regard or respect for your leadership. They, clearly, made a mistake in selecting you for the Promotion Board… hopefully they’ll rectify that situation.
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Nathan Oram - How did you get on this site, did you lie to get on. You fat arm chair quarterback telling how you feel, You most likely could not get in the military.. You don't have a clue what goes on in the military!
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SSG Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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Check it out, (this isn't meant to be rude, but take it for what it's worth). There will be times in your career when your placed in a position of higher responsibility without the pay. From example, as a SGT I served 13 months rated time as a PSG. I spent a few months on deployment serving in a 1LT position, neither time did I get a pay bump, it just is what it is. Understand that now and it won't hit you as hard when you're one rank and they have you take on higher responsibilities. Take the corporal, it does nothing but help you prepare to actual promote to Sergeant.

And yes I'm pretty sure you can refuse it, but it will bite you in the ass.
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SGT Herbert Bollum
SGT Herbert Bollum
>1 y
I was an E-5 at one point my Platoon Sgt. took leave, there was an E-6 in the platoon, but I was acting platoon Sgt. and even the First Sgt. treated me better. They knew who would get the job done.
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Cpl John Doe
Cpl John Doe
>1 y
no offense but it does sound like free cheap nco labor, its hard to not be jaded when you see these stories and know someone is about to get the big green weenie. and why shouldn't a soldier expect the pay to go with the rank? i understand delays but it does come off as we appreciate the work you do but just not enough to pay you for it., in the civilian world who would take a promotion with an unknown pay increase?
others say do it for the pride...meanwhile theres someone out there looking to stab you in the back.
sorry just my experience and opinion on the matter.
at least that soldier has been given a rough date for a pay bump.
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MAJ Tex Hall
MAJ Tex Hall
>1 y
Brother, Great point. When I was a Commander (yup, suck ass officer type) I made sure that my E-5s got NCOERs as 6s, my 6s got NCOERs as 7s, etc. We would get our guys that SHOULD be promoted report cards for the 90 days in a higher ranking position. Guess what? I had More E-5s make E-6 than any other unit in the Battalion, and got more 6s make E-7 than the rest of the battalion combined.
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SGT Brant Bruno
SGT Brant Bruno
>1 y
Cpl John Doe - Evidently you haven't been in a job where you could climb the ladder, so to speak. I have taken several jobs at a lower pay rate than the position pays a qualified individual. You gain that "qualified" status by taking those positions while you are "underqualified". Once you become qualified for a position at that level, then you can ask for a pay bump, or seek a similar position outside your current organization. You do not simply get the pay because you are given the opportunity to learn a new position. We call that a resume builder.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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While I said you can talk to your leadership, I want you to take something into account. When I was a SGT, I was doing the duties of a SSG, until I found myself as a SGT doing the duties of a SFC. I was put in those higher leadership roles because the powers that be saw the potential. I sure as hell wasn't getting the SSG not SFC pay back then. But, I still did my job and I still led my Soldiers.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Been there. Done that.
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CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw
CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw
>1 y
Absolutely Agree SFC Livingston!!! I was acting Officer in Charge of a Medical Detachment of the 4th Med Battalion, filling an Officers Billet when there none available!!! I was Honored to be asked!!! Doc
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SSG Jorge Lopez
SSG Jorge Lopez
1 y
SPC (Join to see) - In 1993, I was an E-5(P) and worked at an E-7 slot in an AVN BDE while there were E-6s at BN level. It was initially to be a trial period or 3 months that eventually became 3 yrs. At the time, I thought it was unfair, but I learned so much during that time! Prepped me really well for future positions! So...Just remember that Nothing happens without a reason.
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CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw
CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw
9 mo
SPC David Roberts Actually, I Was A Master Chief Hospital Corpsman (E-9), Command Master Chief (CMC), (FMF, Fleet Marine Force) Doc
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Can I decline being promoted to Corporal?
SSG Dale London
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I'm normally pretty chill with questions on this forum but attitudes like this really burn my butt. You don't want to take responsibility?!?! Then what the hell are you doing going to BLC or taking up a slot at ranger school?
A question like yours demonstrates unequivocally that you are not fit to lead -- at least not with your present attitude. Your first thought is about pay, not results. You focus is "me, me, me," not "mission first and always." I feel sorry for your soldiers because it doesn't look like you have much of the NCO creed in your heart.
Let me put you straight, Specialist. An NCO puts his soldiers first - ALWAYS. They're the first ones to get chow. They're the first ones to get a couple hours of sleep. They're the first ones in line for anything good.
It's your job as a leader to stand in the breach for them. It's your job to take the hit from the 1SG when one of your guys screws up because, guess what? You are responsible for your troops. If any of this sounds like something you don't want to do then you are NOT NCO material.
Being an NCO is not about pay. It's about being a key player in the team. But if you got $ in your eyes you are not looking out for your team -- you're too busy looking out for yourself. Sorry, but you are not the kind of guy I would want in my foxhole.
One thing, though: if this is how you feel you won't get many more stripes. You can bet your butt the soldiers you lead will figure you out quick. Their performance will be in the same place as your attitude: the toilet. A few crappy NCOER's (or whatever they call them nowadays) and you'll be a career E-6 at twenty facing your RCP.
If your thinking is what it looks like, you should get out and let someone who wants to be a leader do the work you're too special to do.
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SSG Dale London
SSG Dale London
>1 y
CPL Jeffrey Clark - You did good, Corporal. Wear it as a badge of honor for doing something that marks you out as an NCO with principles.
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You dumb ass, he never said he did not want to take the responsibilities. Your brain is so far gone, you can't even comprehend the question. I would never want to work under you with that attittude, your the type that hides behind the uniform.
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Your a fucking liar, every job I have had as a civilian I got my promotion and pay at the same time. So I don't know any asinine in the civilian world that would take a promotion without the pay. So please quit miss informing people.
Sgt Neil Foster
Sgt Neil Foster
1 y
SGT Dana Haskins - It depends on WHAT kind of position you had as a civilian. If you are HOURLY and in a union, of course you get paid for every promotion. HOWEVER, if you are salaried/NON UNION, IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.
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SGM G3 Sergeant Major
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That's your choice, and you have every right to it. All you have to do is not sign the 4187.

But if you don't want additional responsibility until you get the additional money, I have some bad news for you...
Not only did you join the wrong organization for that, but most of the organizations in the private sector will also be wrong for you.

It's been mentioned in most of these posts, but E4s work as TM LDRs. SGTs work as SLs.
SSGs and SGTs work as PSGs. I have seen SFCs hold a CPT billet overseas.
In the private sector I have seen junior salaried and hourly employees manage programs and people prior to getting paid management.

That's just the way the world works; all too often the job needs to be filled faster than the paperwork or requirements can be completed.

But if that's not you, then you will be punching a time clock for as long as you are working your post-military career.
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Cpl John Doe
Cpl John Doe
>1 y
yes in the private sector there is also a timeline for additional pay for additional work, you cant expect a assistant manager to do the managers job permanently and not pay them for it, just like in the private sector that valuable employee will leave.

ultimately this soldier needs to relax and dont worry the money will come with the rank, unlike some stories where units got away with running a junior nco as a senior nco for 1 year plus with no promotion.
backing the 80's i remember a marine getting asked by an inspecting general how long he had been running his particular shop ( aviation maintenance support ) the marine told him 6 months plus... guess what that general promoted him on the spot- because he was doing a stellar job and im sure the money came as soon as the paperwork was cleared.
so soldier dont worry the money will show up, its the military they take their time on rewards........ not so hard to reassure eh?
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Your a fucking liar, every job I have had as a civilian I got my promotion and pay at the same time. So I don't know any asinine in the civilian world that would take a promotion without the pay. So please quit miss informing people.
SGM G3 Sergeant Major
SGM (Join to see)
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SGT Dana Haskins - Cool your jets, hero.
Your individual work experience is not indicative of all 132 million working fulltime in the country today.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
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LMAO - you can be slotted as a team leader and have the responsibility even as a SPC - the lateral promotion gives your orders more weight. You do not get to decide if you want the position or not, Command makes the decision, and if that is where they want you, then that is what you will do. Do you want to lead or is it just a paycheck.
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SFC James Cameron
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Brother, I would think long and hard about not wanting that hard stripe. The Army is a small world, and the Deuce makes it even smaller. If I ever had any Junior Leader that I was grooming into the NCO Corps tell me that they didn’t want the responsibility until they were getting the pay I’d immediately begin vesting my efforts in another candidate that was up to the burden of leadership and I’d let my peers know they weren’t quite ready for the next step. That’s not personal, it’s stewardship of the profession. An Effective Leader is constantly going to be tasked with duties and responsibilities beyond what rank they wear.
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your a fucking idiot with your attitude!
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SGM Bill Frazer
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So are you saying, it's all about the money? Are you better than anybody else who was a CPL or was a SPC, made into an acting team leader w/o the stripes? You are wearing a Falcon crest, just How many CPL's have you seen in the Regiment. My 14 yrs. I saw 3- 1- SVN vet who got busted every 4-5 months of drunk. Disorderly or 2 days AWOL. I was the 2nd while waiting for E5 points to come down, and the Asst Supply NCOIC who doubled as the company armorer. If this gets around, I would worry about changing stripes, you could just wait for hard stripes sometime down the road and any further progression might be slow.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG Robert Perrotto
3 y
The CSM can pull his promotion packet, give a counseling statement why it was pulled, and then have him assigned that leadership slot anyway, SM deliberately fails because he is not getting paid to do the job and screws it up, leadership counsels why he is not getting promoted, and then CSM can pull his Ranger school slot. So many ways to legally and within regulation to handle a paycheck soldier. Unsat performance has consequences, unsat attitude, along with unsat performance carries even greater consequences.
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There are lots of things the Army CAN'T make you do. But there are a LOT of things the Army CAN DO to make you wish you had done the things you DIDN'T have to do.
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MAJ Steve Warnerski - This comment deserves a thousand likes!!
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SFC Corey Pitt - My father (US Army, Retired) told me that the week I enlisted a million years ago.
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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WTF, SGT (Join to see), if you’re that concerned about money vs position, just ETS. Somewhere there’s a private sector company that will be happy to exploit your labor for less than the prevailing wage. At least you’ll be free to quit any time you want.
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This comment deserves a thousand likes, also.
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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You can still be a team leader as a SPC, you don't have to be a CPL to be in a leadership position.

If your goal is to pass Ranger School then you need to be in a leadership position practicing leadership. Contrary to popular belief Ranger School is not just some "gut check" to see if you're tough enough. You are being evaluated in a leadership position and being graded upon your performance as a leader. Ranger School literally IS being a Team Leader, and a Squad Leader, and a PL and PSG over and over again. The people who do the best are the ones with leadership experience. If you think you're going to walk in there with zero leadership experience under the best of conditions - a garrison environment - and expect to perform well leading Rangers under the worst possible conditions, you will become a resident of the RTB Gulag
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
3 y
Didn’t you spend the last 2 years trying to claw your way to active duty? What was the end game. Appointment to CPL means your leadership throughBN are foregoing a req for a Sergeant to lateral you to CPL. Take it as a compliment
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