Posted on Mar 16, 2021
SGT Infantryman
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I passed the board recently and now im being told i may have to be a CPL until i go to BLC or until i get back from ranger school. I dont want to take responsibility as a team leader and still get paid as a SPC. Can i deny a 4187 ?
Posted in these groups: 72918f9c PromotableStar PromotionsArmycpl CPL
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
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Edited 2 y ago
SARGE.?... I HOPE You Took That Promo To Corporal;...... Each Promo Is A Move To The Next One ...
At Some Point You MUST Accept A Leadership Role If You Plan On Making The Service A Career Or Advance Anywhere. ..The Sooner You Begin The Sooner It'll Become Easier & Easier, Then One Morning You'll Wake Up & It's Like You've Always Had The Skill.

BTW: I'm Speaking From Experience; Believe This Or Not, At 14 I Went To Live In Panama With My Brother, Jim... He Was Already Rather Wealthy At The Time; He Owned, Outright, An Insurance Company; (La Tienda De Seguros) A Service Station (Paitilla Gulf) An Auto Body Shop (Name Slips Me) . A Roller Skating Rink (El Patin Dorado), An Electronics Repair Shop (Television Pan-Americano) And Some Others.

ANYWAY, One Day He Took Me Aside & Said "Rick, I Realize You'e Just A Teenager, But You May As Well Start Learning To Be A Business Manager, And NOW Is a Good Time To Start" ... I Was Trained At His Service Station Then Manager Within 6 Months....( YES, I Was The Owners Kid Brother, So It Was NO Surprise To Anyone .... So Obviously, The Position Was GIVEN To Me ......Then Earned After Later.. LOL. ...
SO, As I Was Saying, I Hope You Took The Promo... Then You'll Almost Fall Into Supervision As You Move Forward With Your Career... And, Contrary To What You May Think, It AIN'T All That Difficult.
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SGM Omer Dalton
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You have to be kidding. What is the real purpose of this question? While in Germany around 1965, we lost most of our senior NCOs because of the Vietnam buildup with no replacements. I was appointed a Sergeant and placed in a SFC position. I later made SSG and was placed in a MSG slot. The mission had to continue and the junior staff had to step up, and we did. It had nothing to do with pay; it was all about responsibility to the organization and the army as a whole. And think how this looked on NCOERs. If you don’t want to step up then you are in the wrong organization and taking up space that a responsible soldier would gladly do. If I was your CSM you would never be an NCO or get further training. If you want to remain in the army past this enlistment, step up and take the responsibility.
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CPT Staff Officer
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Edited 2 y ago
This is largely what happens in the rest of the world. Civilian, Military or otherwise.
Prove you are worthy of the responsibility then the spoils usually follow.

What about all those LTC's filling in Division Commander slots at the beginning of WW2, what about all those PFC's acting as PSG's, and E5's acting as 1SG?

The military is largely a lethargic bureaucratic process of promotions and assignments. You'll find the timing of opportunities don't always line up in nice clean progression of promotions and assignments.

Want to know messed up? How about getting paid less than a younger less capable peer who manages to get BAH with dependents just because he has them. $$$ as a function entirely irrelevant of job capabilities.

How about being an idiot taking command in a O3 slot when only a O2. Getting paid no more, getting promoted no sooner, and taking on all the personal, professional and financial risks of an Active Duty CPT but only paid 1/10th the pay.

How's that for BS?
*********

It's just part of the system. There isn't a Sr ranking NCO or Officer that hasn't had that situation themselves.

In fact, look up the SPACE FORCE higher officer commands. There is a FOUR STAR on TOP with a bunch of COL's (last time I looked) as direct reports, and they all stuck their necks out in anticipation of picking up one, two, and three stars while filling those roles only as COL's.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
2 y
SOUNDS STRANGE,
But I KNOW From Experience,
It DOES Happen.
In Fact. I Spent Far More Time Working OUT Of My AFSC,
Than IN It.
And There Were Times Those Out-Ranking Me,
Worked FOR Me.
They Weren't Very Happy About It,
But, Then Again, Neither Was I.
I Simply Had Experiences &Training
Which They Didn't.
It Was Just An Issue Of "Temporary Necessity"
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SFC Johnny Connor
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A lot of answers will be against your attitude. Listen no one will take care of you except you. Oftentimes in the military you will work above your grade. I understand completely where you coming from. As a Specialist I was put in charge of a team. I had to counsel 5 guys, be responsible for my equipment and do all the duties of a Sergeant to include training battle buddies that sometimes know the equipment better than I did. But this is how it works. Take it as an experience to learn to be a leader. As a Corporal they will give you more room to mess up and learn. As a sergeant you are expected to be on top of your game at all times. Don't let any of the wackos here tell you that you don't deserve to be promoted. You do. You need counseling and that s what your seniors do for you. Finally remember that you work for your reputation.
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Sgt Ed Allen
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You can always do what Pvt Forcucci did.
Whenever he found out that the promotion warrant was on the CO's desk, he would go to the E-Club and wait for an MP to show up. He would then have 1 beer and go punch the MP. He figured that if anybody deserved getting punched, it was the MP.
This, of course, would be reported to the CO who would then shred the promotion warrant and bust Forcucci down from PFC to Pvt.
He, like you, didn't want any responsibility for other people. He just wanted to do his job and, if needed, was more than willing to fight.
He was also one of the last people I knew, who retired after 20 years of service as a PFC. Shortly after that is when the USMC said that you couldn't stay for 20 unless you made E7.
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SPC Chet Hollingsworth
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I was laterally promoted to Cpl. Did not goes as planned. Frustrated me badly so I requested a lateral transfer back to SPC. And it bit me in the ass about two weeks later. Hit with a bar to reenlistment. I had reenlisted 5 months prior do figured I had time to earn the bar lifted. Except I ran face first into a wall full of medboard.. and that was all she wrote.
My advice? Take the hard stripes, learn early good and bad leaders can show you. Grow through failing the early stuff and making those moments to key learning points. While E-4 Mafia clearly has more fun, those who make E-5 tend to burn out fast. Use the hardstripe time to understand how the next level of management operates in the actual and theoretical realms. Reach out to different SENIOR NCOs on how to improve your strengths, transform you weaknesses, learn why and how the job is supposed to function. Better to learn it as a struggling corporal than get it thrown at you as a newly pinned e5
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CPL Michael Moore
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I don’t know what the pay is now but in my day there was no difference in pay between a Sp4 and hard stripe Cpl. I also recently read that all Sp4 will convert to Corporal’s stripes.
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CSM Tony Blair
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Soooo,
This is about money??
Not leadership? Not living up to the NCO Creed? If I was in your chain of Command and I read this, you’d never become a leader in my Company or Battalion, I would pull you from your slot in Ranger school, if I could, it sounds like you are on the road to be that guy, don’t be that guy, you know that guy??
The one who everyone wonders how did they become a leader????

We use to say
“For God and Country “

They say the military is changing, no the soldiers are. You need to adjust and rethink why you wear the uniform.

CSM Blair
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CPL Patricia Gentry
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Are you in it just for the money? You are probably already doing the work! I was a corporal and it made me a better Sgt.
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CPL M1 ABRAMS Tank System Maintainer
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Once you pass BLC and are promotable IAW Milper messages 17-21 (I believe) you are laterally promoted. No 4187 you are just an NCO.
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