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I passed the board recently and now im being told i may have to be a CPL until i go to BLC or until i get back from ranger school. I dont want to take responsibility as a team leader and still get paid as a SPC. Can i deny a 4187 ?
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 333
This is truly a ridiculous post soldier. Can you decline? Sure, go ahead and decline. Have fun with that. Let your leaders know exactly what kind of soldier you are.
Furthermore I will say this- go read the Warriors Creed, and then the NCO Creed. If there are further questions- you may need to reconsider your life / career choices.
Furthermore I will say this- go read the Warriors Creed, and then the NCO Creed. If there are further questions- you may need to reconsider your life / career choices.
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I wasn't in the Army. I have no real worthy comment, I always kind of thought an Army Corporal was a Sgt that got busted, everyone else is a Spec 4. I can only imagine that your company may not have a billet opening, or that you do not have enough time in pay rate, but that you show leadership quality and that they want to help you develop that and prepare you for fast track to Sgt. Don't shoot your foot off despite your face.
The Navy and may give a PO3 watch boss status on individual basis's
The Marine Corps still has the rank of Corporal.
The Air Force no longer considers the pay rate of E-4 as an NCO
The do not like Warrant Officers either.
The Navy and may give a PO3 watch boss status on individual basis's
The Marine Corps still has the rank of Corporal.
The Air Force no longer considers the pay rate of E-4 as an NCO
The do not like Warrant Officers either.
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You should think about this, you can be required to work one position up from you pay grade, if a few more depending on the situation as an E-5 I have worked as Bn. Staff Duty and as an E-6 as Bde. Staff Duty, Yeah, I got busted however I was still trusted to perform those positions as an E-5, and did, I have held a duty position of an E-7 as an E-6 and I didn't get paid for it! It comes with the territory of being an NCO and not a Sergeant. Sergeant writes up counselling statements and requirement for Art. 15s, NCOs burn the midnight oil retraining their personnel in the short comings even if it cuts into your time. Why because when you look left at your section or squad those are the people you are going to go with combat today! Pen pushing isn't training, and this sounds like you want to be a pen pusher and not an NCO prove me wrong.
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I recommend you never think this way again, and, deny as best you can, ever asking such a question.
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I have always said and counseled my son to always take the harder job when the opportunity presented itself. I took 05 command as an 04 and 06 command as an 05. I made O6 so it must have worked. My son made E6 in six years and PSG as a junior E6. Any career should provide advancement. If you are not looking for advancement in the Army, maybe you are in the wrong career. If I was your Platton Leader, you would stay E4 for a long time if you declined CPL.
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Wow, I am honestly suprised by the hostility demonstrated in this comment section. The kid simply asked if he legally can deny a 4187. It would be easy to pigeonhole yourself into thinking this decision is strictly about his monthly paycheck. Though that is the example he cited as justification, it is much more complicated an issue than that. Not being familiar with HIS SPECIFIC COMMAND TEAM, we cannot assume that he is just a "shitbag" who doesnt want the responsibility of an NCO.
As someone who watched points sit at 790-never and WAS promoted to corporal for the duration, I can say corporal was HANDS DOWN the WORST time in my career. I found myself as the CQ NCO as well as the CQ runner bc a runner was "E4 and below" and CQ NCO required "an NCO". If there was a Soldier on extra duty, guess which NCO they used and abused? Pawned off inconvenient NCO duties to, yup, me. But NCOPD? Never. Stable Call for NCOs? E5 and up. Corporal is literally a rank that is given next to no respect and is abused by leadership. Now, consider the financial implications, no additional money but now he has to completely redo his uniforms (re-sew all of his rank and make them match due to fading, sew new rank on his blues) but all of the financial implications without receiving any additional income to do so. Is it so hard to empathize that if he is married with dependants, he may already be paycheck to paycheck as is?
The kid came here for answers, not opinions. We, as leaders in the Army, should have been better for him.
So the answer to your question. Yes, you can deny a 4187 by speaking with your chain of command. If you do so, you will likely need to have a conversation as to "why". I would be forward about legitimate concerns and personally would not cite no pay increase as the only justification. Be aware, as others have mentioned, that this may bring scrutiny on you and change the opinion your leaders have about you. So yes, you can....but consider it thoroughly and prepare yourself accordingly.
As someone who watched points sit at 790-never and WAS promoted to corporal for the duration, I can say corporal was HANDS DOWN the WORST time in my career. I found myself as the CQ NCO as well as the CQ runner bc a runner was "E4 and below" and CQ NCO required "an NCO". If there was a Soldier on extra duty, guess which NCO they used and abused? Pawned off inconvenient NCO duties to, yup, me. But NCOPD? Never. Stable Call for NCOs? E5 and up. Corporal is literally a rank that is given next to no respect and is abused by leadership. Now, consider the financial implications, no additional money but now he has to completely redo his uniforms (re-sew all of his rank and make them match due to fading, sew new rank on his blues) but all of the financial implications without receiving any additional income to do so. Is it so hard to empathize that if he is married with dependants, he may already be paycheck to paycheck as is?
The kid came here for answers, not opinions. We, as leaders in the Army, should have been better for him.
So the answer to your question. Yes, you can deny a 4187 by speaking with your chain of command. If you do so, you will likely need to have a conversation as to "why". I would be forward about legitimate concerns and personally would not cite no pay increase as the only justification. Be aware, as others have mentioned, that this may bring scrutiny on you and change the opinion your leaders have about you. So yes, you can....but consider it thoroughly and prepare yourself accordingly.
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Why would you want to decline becoming a Corporal?
You are going through Ranger school and yet you do not want to be in a leadership position?
Makes no sense, unless you just want to be a follower or do not intend to stay in the Army.
Apparently your chain of command sees enough in you to put you in a leadership position. If you try to decline this leadership position, it can possibly jeopardize your Ranger status or any future promotion possibilities. Do you not want to be a leader? Think about what you are considering. Don’t throw your opportunities away.
Good luck to you.
You are going through Ranger school and yet you do not want to be in a leadership position?
Makes no sense, unless you just want to be a follower or do not intend to stay in the Army.
Apparently your chain of command sees enough in you to put you in a leadership position. If you try to decline this leadership position, it can possibly jeopardize your Ranger status or any future promotion possibilities. Do you not want to be a leader? Think about what you are considering. Don’t throw your opportunities away.
Good luck to you.
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I was not in the army but to me anyone who gets promoted should take it. when I was in the navy in 1982 I made RM2 E-5 I was frocked to E-5 Meaning that I was still getting paid as a RM3/E-4 Until my actual date I got paid for E-5. But I was a watch sup in NAVFAC Guam radio shack. it is your responsibility to take the promotion to show the chain of command that you are willing to be in charge. if all you are caring about is the money then you need to get out.
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