Posted on Jan 13, 2020
SSG Aviation Operations Specialist
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Good Afternoon, I’m inquiring about the NCOER process. I was on ADOS with my Battalion S1 for a year & 7 months. My rater who is an E7 was not honest about the number of soldiers that she currently rates. She stated that she currently rates 4 NCOs. However, I am the only NCO that she rates. This information is also reflected on the BN rating scheme. Also, in the overall performance section she first stated “4 out of 4 NCOs that I served with in my 12 years in the Army”. Then a month later she unsigned the NCOER, after it was kick back, & she changed it to “3 out of 4 NCOs that I over seen in my 12 years of service with the Army”. When I asked her about it she didn’t respond so I reached out to the Senior rater. She was upset that I mentioned her grammar mistakes to the senior rater then added a second comment to my Overall performance section “needs to develop professional environment maturity”. She also only had one bullet in the presence section. She was asked to remove some inaccurate comments by the command and never added new comments to the presence section. She recently closed out my NCOER without my signature and stated “refused to sign”. However, I was never asked to review the final copy. I did not refuse the NCOER because I was never informed it was complete. The NCOER still has some grammar mistakes (Over seen should be one word & “professional environment maturity“ doesn’t make sense together) so it will be kicked back. My question is: Can my rater just lie about the number of soldiers that she currently rates? Can she change the context to over seen if she only served with other NCOs? Can my rater close out my NCOER without me viewing the final draft? The NCOER was due in September.
Posted in these groups: 1efa5058 NCOER
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MSG Logistics Analyst
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I would go straight to my 1Sg's office and scoop him up on my way to see the CSM.
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SGT Dave Tracy
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L.D.R.S.H.I.P.

So how's that Army value of Integrity treatin' ya these days?
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SSG Eye Specialist
SSG (Join to see)
6 y
Barely none. Esp in the reserve units.
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SGT Dave Tracy
SGT Dave Tracy
6 y
SSG (Join to see) - We're all human...some just moreso than others I guess.
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LTC Program Manager
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"4 of 4"
Did you kill her dog?
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SSG Aviation Operations Specialist
SSG (Join to see)
6 y
Lol no I had to call the 1SG because my new Reserve unit was not happy the NCOER being 3 months late after numerous calls from me & the S1 at my current unit. I was trying to avoid my CSM from calling her CSM. I know her well so she was probably pissed I called 1SG. She Is one to hold a grudge & is vindictive. She is smart because she goes above & beyond for people that can give her recognition. So when she does something out of reg its just seen as stress. I’m part time but she is AGR so she thinks this will affect me but I’m not dependent on the Army as a life long career. I was just curious so I set up a post. I guess she got mad because I question the grammar & challenge some comments she later moved.
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LTC Program Manager
LTC (Join to see)
6 y
If anyone reviews her work the final NCOER wouldn't say that. There is no reason to enumerate below 50%. 4 of 4 says you are the worst NCO she has ever rated. It's actually the worst NCOER comment I've ever heard of. The worst I've seen before this was on the old form, all SAT and no comments.
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
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SSG (Join to see) You just spelled it all out: She is AGR! Nuff said!
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SGT Robert Wager
SGT Robert Wager
>1 y
LTC (Join to see) I actually got an all Sat and no comment NCOER. The one try at hurt the most was the senior rater comment “promote with peers”. It was bookmarked between two NCOERs that were all excellent and 1 blocks. Same battalion different companies. The two good ratings were being rated one grade above pay grade and the crappy one was being rated at current grade. Brutally apparent that it was a personality conflict not a reflection on performance.
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Can my rater lie about the number of soldiers that he/she rates in my NCOER?
SFC Retention Operations Nco
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Your rater can, yes. But there are supposed to be checks and balances to prevent that from happening. If the NCOER is submitted already I would suggest appealing the NCOER and bringing this all to your CSM and then IG if that doesn't fix it.
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MSG Logistics Analyst
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IG will not touch an evaluation until it has gone through its entire course and an appeal has been submitted.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
SSG Dennis Mendoza
>1 y
So I had an NCO that did not want to write my change of rater and her chain of command would not help even though it was two years late but when I call IG and told the agent that I had supporting evidence and send the agent everything I got my ncoer done and submitted to HRC through USPS mail and upload it into my IPERMS.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
SSG Dennis Mendoza
>1 y
In addition I had to do a congressional on that NCO to finally get it all done, sorry I had two comments.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Edited 6 y ago
Ooooh....someone gonna be in trouble....and that person ain't gonna be you. But I am curious. What did the Senior Rater say about all of this?
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SSG Aviation Operations Specialist
SSG (Join to see)
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My senior rater is a CPT & new to S1. He is one of the unit pilots. Most times he trusts my rater because she is the NCOIC of S1 so he just signs the document & he really doesn’t read it. He is also an airline pilot and is very busy during the week. Sometimes he is preparing for a flight on drill weekend.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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SSG (Join to see) - Well, that's just completely unacceptable.
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SFC Sean Stokes
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Edited 6 y ago
If I were you, I would inform my NCO Support Channel that if that NCOER isn’t removed from my record then I’m going to have to initiate an appeal. CSM’s and 1SG’s as well as Raters and Senior Raters typically do not want to deal with ER appeals. Check the regs on the NCOER and reaference the appeals process. It’s not too hard to do, especially since you weren’t provided the opportunity to sign the ER. In the future if you don’t receive quarterly counseling from your Rater on the quarterly check list, then do it yourself to keep track of the things that you have done during your rated period.....and when you have a dispute over your ER with your rater inform the senior rater and show them your NCOER checklist while requesting they compare that to the checklist the rater was supposed to keep during the rated period according to the regulation, and if the rater fails to produce their checklist it’s usually problem solved.
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SSG Eye Specialist
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I am in the similar situation. My rater disregarded my support form and downgraded my work. I volunteered for an additional duty and spent significant time during my civ work and at home. As reserve TPUs, we do monthly drill and AT which are the minimum requirement and get to barely engage with duties in unit and that's why I volunteered. However, despite of my personal 20+ hour for this additional duty and 98 EBDL courses I took online, all my criterias on my eval met the standard. Also, my initial counseling date is wrong - it is read as 2 Oct but I was not with that unit till 19 Oct. For over 2 months now, she doesn't respond to my email, text, phone calls and never made corrections. After a few years as an NCO, I learned the evaluation is nothing but just a garbage as it is only shows who's buddy buddy with the rater. At least, in the reserve units, this happens all the time.
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CSM Richard StCyr
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Edited 6 y ago
Look at AR and DA Pam 623-3, they go into painful detail about who does what and what can be done by whom. They also cover the appeals process for perceived unfair or unjust ratings. Since this is going on in an S-1 shop grab your senior rater, 1 SG and head over and see the CSM. I know I'd be interested if my S-1 NCO was playing fast and loose with facts and figures.

Personally I'd stick to the inflated number of NCOs rated and falsified "refused to sign" statements as those are actual quantifiable things that are not based on any subjective standard and are either correct or incorrect. It appears the X /X rating is supposed to be based on currently rated NCOs of the same grade. They also are good things to remember when you write your appeal to the NCOER should the discrepancies not be addressed.
The way I read the reg there must be at least one bullet comment for each rated area so as long as there is a bullet there it meets the minimum standard....
b. Bullet comments. Bullet comments are mandatory regardless of the box check rating given (at least one bullet will be entered in each block of c through i). Standardized rules apply to bullet comments on NCOER. Bullet comments will— (1) Be short, concise, to the point. Bullets will not be longer than two lines, preferably one, and no more than one bullet to a line.

As far as the rater having jacked up spelling, grammar or syntax; I'd leave that out when discussing the situation with the CSM, as it makes it look like you're whining and the apparent lack of integrity far out ways the grammatic errors . Also the Sergeants Major sitting on the board are more concerned with the quantifiable actions and events cited in the NCOER bullets then they are with the exemplary grammar used by the raters.
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SSG Aviation Operations Specialist
SSG (Join to see)
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Wish there were more soldiers like you in the reserves. Thank you for the great advice CSM.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
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An NCOER is an official document. Therefore, no, NO ONE can lie on it. However "4 of 4 in 12 years" is different than "4 of 4 currently." Just becaise your rater does not CURRENTLY rate 4 NCOs, does not mean that thos is a lie.

Make sure you know "what the facts is" before you go and make an official accusation against that NCO's integrity. Especially since that is your boss. Things go south real quick in these situations.
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SSG Aviation Operations Specialist
SSG (Join to see)
6 y
I told my current CSM that my rater can rank me in whatever number she pleases. She could of worked with those other NCOs for several years and knew them well. She barely knew me since I was sent to work with another company shortly after I started my ADOS tour. But currently rate 4 is incorrect. I was promoted out of the unit so I won't ever see her again. She is AGR and I am a reservist. She is PCSing to another state in June. The E5 before me left on an assignment and refused to return to S1 to work with my rater. So there is definitely a pattern with her and her female subordinates. But it is not my problem to solve. Even if she is lying she won't get in trouble. The NCOER will get kicked back since it has grammar mistakes. I know how they operate in my old unit. They prefer to sweep less threatening issues under the rug with a quick fix. She'll just make the corrections, have the senior rater call me to review it sign and move on like nothing happened. I seen it happen time and time again in this unit. I don't dwell on it & I just move on as well.
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1SG Mitchell Smith
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If you're quarterly counseling doesn't reflect ANY of the issues. Use the 1SG/CSM open door policy to address all stated above. Don't settle for this NCOER being sent forward it will eventually bite you in upcoming promotions.

Sounds to me this NCOER has become personal and not professional.

Good luck.
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