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I'm curious as to whether officers can be demoted like enlisted can as officers are promoted via congress so I'm wondering if demotions would be the same. Just wondering because I know if a junior enlisted gets an Article 15, a lot of times they loose rank. I've never heard of this for an officer unless they are convicted by court martial. PFC (Join to see) SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG (Join to see) Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish MSG (Join to see)
Punishment
Officers
Knowledge
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 28
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AUS officers can be demoted to their USAR or USA rank. Most common are LTGs and GENs that drop to MG when they vacate their nominative positions. MG is the highest USA and USAR permanent ranks.
This does not necessarily punitive, but can be. Other officers that lose AUS rank, may simply just be leaving AD. A friend of mine that was in when the Army needed Captains and you were promoted every 12 months, left AD as a Captain AUS, but became a 2LT USAR with two years TIG.
This does not necessarily punitive, but can be. Other officers that lose AUS rank, may simply just be leaving AD. A friend of mine that was in when the Army needed Captains and you were promoted every 12 months, left AD as a Captain AUS, but became a 2LT USAR with two years TIG.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
That does raise the question about 3 components, I hear often Regular, Reserve and other than Regular Army. OTRA, I guess means AUS to cover O-9s and 10s and others such as myself. AFAIK, the other Commissioned Officers, USPHS, NOAA, etc are Navy. I always scratch my head as to the US Surgeon General being a Vice Admiral. LOL
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LtCol William Bentley
An officer can never be demoted punitively, as Rule for Court-Martial 1003(c)(2)(A)(i) prevents it: commissioned and warrant officers, cadets, and midshipmen cannot be sentenced to demotion by any court-martial. (And Article 15 punishments do not include demotion of officers.) All other types of officer reappointments are administrative. They might be "adverse" administrative actions, but they would be administrative nonetheless...Cheers, WB
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CW4 Keith Dolliver
MAJ Ronnie Reams - Sorry, poor choice in verbiage on my part. AUS still "exists" and is on the books, but it is not used or active anymore. I'm sure your commission still exists in that component and nothing has changed for anyone from the past, but AUS (as far as I know) basically just exists for if/when the draft were ever to come back into play.
USPHS and NOAA are separate completely from the Navy. They are each one of the seven uniformed services of the U.S. (eight now, with the Space Force), but neither are part of the Armed Services. They use the same ranks and insignia as the Navy but are not part of the Naval Service.
USPHS and NOAA are separate completely from the Navy. They are each one of the seven uniformed services of the U.S. (eight now, with the Space Force), but neither are part of the Armed Services. They use the same ranks and insignia as the Navy but are not part of the Naval Service.
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LtCol William Bentley
MAJ Ronnie Reams - You'll really scratch your head when you realize that although the Surgeon General, as a 3-star uniformed services commissioned Officer of the United States, and the operational head of the USPHS, is NOT the senior member of the USPHS. His boss is the Assistant Secretary for Health, Admiral Brett P. Giroir, MD, for the Department of Health and Human Services. Admiral Giroir is the highest-ranking USPHS commissioned officer.
See: https://www.usphs.gov/leadership
In the uniformed services, USPHS and NOAA, the head of service is the operational head, with authorities to conduct operations, exercises, and move personnel about in deployment. They share this power with the operational head of the USCG, the Commandant, who also has authorities when under DHS to conduct operations as necessary within the roles and missions of the USCG.
This is distinctly unlike the powers of the modern Service Chiefs, the Chiefs of Staff of the Army and Air Force, the Commandant of the Marines, the Chief of Naval Operations, and the Chief of Space Operations, who have no operational roles or authorities...all such powers having been ceded to the Unified Combatant Commanders as a result of the 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Act...the GNA being the single most important law pertaining to the military passed since the enactment of the the UCMJ in 1950.
Cheers,
See: https://www.usphs.gov/leadership
In the uniformed services, USPHS and NOAA, the head of service is the operational head, with authorities to conduct operations, exercises, and move personnel about in deployment. They share this power with the operational head of the USCG, the Commandant, who also has authorities when under DHS to conduct operations as necessary within the roles and missions of the USCG.
This is distinctly unlike the powers of the modern Service Chiefs, the Chiefs of Staff of the Army and Air Force, the Commandant of the Marines, the Chief of Naval Operations, and the Chief of Space Operations, who have no operational roles or authorities...all such powers having been ceded to the Unified Combatant Commanders as a result of the 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Act...the GNA being the single most important law pertaining to the military passed since the enactment of the the UCMJ in 1950.
Cheers,
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I knew a few former Captains passed for Major that were allowed to stay in. Maybe as GySgt depending. One went Infantry WO (Gunner). Kicked major ass with TF Ripper in DS.
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In December of 2016 an article was published about a Major General who had carried on a long time affair using government phones and all with a woman (not his wife) and had been counseled about it. Long enough time that it dated back to when he was a Lt. Col. and he was busted back to that rank and retired with 30 years at Lt. Col. losing about $40,000 per year in retirement pay.
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There were three times I ever saw an "open" punishment of an officer.
1st time was a 1LT who couldn't make height and weight. Never had an issue with PT and was great at his job and a super leader. But he was heavy and he wasn't able to and keep the weight off, he was forced to resign his commission.
2nd time was a Battery Commander that got into a car drunk and hit and killed a person on a motorcycle. He was court martialed, reduced to E-1 and sent to Leavenworth. That was a bitch, the entire command came down on the battery as if it their fault it happened. Toxic leadership at it's finest there.
The last time, a 1LT read a compass backwards during a artillery hip shot. Put a 155mm round off post. (pre Paladin)
He just vanished. Was told he was sent to a basic training unit until his resignation went through.
1st time was a 1LT who couldn't make height and weight. Never had an issue with PT and was great at his job and a super leader. But he was heavy and he wasn't able to and keep the weight off, he was forced to resign his commission.
2nd time was a Battery Commander that got into a car drunk and hit and killed a person on a motorcycle. He was court martialed, reduced to E-1 and sent to Leavenworth. That was a bitch, the entire command came down on the battery as if it their fault it happened. Toxic leadership at it's finest there.
The last time, a 1LT read a compass backwards during a artillery hip shot. Put a 155mm round off post. (pre Paladin)
He just vanished. Was told he was sent to a basic training unit until his resignation went through.
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Officers can't be demoted through an article 15 or court martial like enlisted. Officers that have gotten in trouble but make it to retirement will have a retired grade determination made at the time and will be retired at the grade they last held honorably. Also, 3 and 4 star ranks are temporary grades associated with positions. Those officers can revert back to being a 2 star if they don't move into another 3 or 4 star job or if they screwed up and aren't allowed to retire as a 3 or 4 star.
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I had a roommate in Vietnam, a 1st Lt (long story about how he got in the position) who got a letter from CMC (yes, signed by the CMC) stating, "Your usefulness to the United States Marine Corps has ended and you are invited to resign your commission and seek alternative employment. You are hereby directed to obtain military air back to the Continental United States and report to the nearest Marine Corps activity for separation." I suspect there was more of a process than that letter suggested, but he was gone in less than three days.
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After the Vietnam War was winding down, the requirement for commissioned helicopter pilots diminished significantly and the Reductions in Force enabled some to accept a warrant officer position as a helicopter pilot my friend SSG(P) (Join to see)
FYI Maj Daniel Pempel
FYI Maj Daniel Pempel
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The Fleet Commander got cashiered years ago when the Navy had a spate of their boats running into things... like enormous very slow moving freighters, as well as each other. I assume he had the option of retiring at that point, but it seems unfair to target him as he wasn’t driving the boats. The only way imo he’d be culpable would be appointing unqualified Captains to drive the ships. Shrugs, outside of that I have to clue, I assume most major screw ups end a career, if there’s negligence and someone gets hurt I’d guess UCMJ applies to everyone regardless of rank.
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I've only known one case as he was a Major but became a MSG until his 20 years. Dont know the details but retired as a Major.
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AUS, i.e., the National Guard, officers can be reduced in rank to their last prior rank when their term as a general officer ends (often as a state adjutant general). It is not a punishment, just an administrative reassignment. When active duty officers are punished, they cannot be reduced in rank. However, if an officer is retiring, but has committed offenses, the service secretary can be asked to make a grade determination as to the last rank served honorably for pay purposes only. In two instances I am aware of, a major general was only allowed to draw a colonel's retired pay, and a colonel was only allowed to draw the retired pay of a first lieutenant. No active duty or reserve officer can be reduced in actual rank, although brevet (i.e., temporary) ranks used to expire or be revoked, primarily after the World War II/Korean War post-war force reductions. Those were administrative reassignments also, albeit that brevet ranks are not used anymore.
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