Posted on Dec 10, 2017
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
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Fighting against his poor and negligent leadership, on each and every step of his assignment, in almost a decade and a half of active service, an officer was errantly discharged to cover-up the mistakes of his leadership, clear thru to GOs. Fighting the system; this officer was diagnosed with PTSD. Was this diagnosis another cover-up or can PTSD develop in peacetime?
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Sgt Jean Civitarese
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Of course it can! I have it. As I explained earlier, I was traumatized when I was punished for reported that I was sexually assaulted and my OIC, the perpetrator, was not punished. AND, he cont. to assault more women! You know how much guilt I have because I could not stop him from hurting others??
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
6 y
Other officers in the Command have a responsibility to uphold laws and to protect others from unlawful actions or intent and to prevent such illicit activities from repeating in the Command; defend subordinates by defending the Constitution. However, most superiors and peers, knowing a subordinate is being illegally tortured against his or her free will, will never even attempt to rescue that subordinate or prevent another such disgraceful crime in the Command, because it is a matter of their own career appraisals; a selfish mindset. Selfless service is a facade to fudge compassion, which only exists for the chosen few.
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Lisa Fiedler
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First off, it has been renamed PTSS for quite some time now. It's not a disorder. PTS Syndrome happens as a result of any traumatic event. It was finally realized and brought to light thereby changing the name. It is something that absolutely requires talking it out (with either a trusted friend or a professional counselor). I believe that fighting against actions of fraud, waste and abuse is a different kind of stressfulness, but not to the extent of PTSS. Though too many people nowadays cry stress in almost any situation. Grow up! Get the job done; move on with your life.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
6 y
Flashbacks of fake charges and fake news are overwhelming to an extent that any similar situation causes avoidance and running from the office. The want to respond to fake news or false information results in a flashback of those BOIs that were cooked to conceal evidence and end the livelihood of an innocent junior, so I avoid discussion to detriment. Being honest in a dishonest world is not only extremely difficult, it is an almost impossible task. Psychotherapy has been unsuccessful; drugs have failed miserably. Jobs come and go. What is the road ahead?
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SPC Barbara (Crocker) Carlson
SPC Barbara (Crocker) Carlson
6 y
Talking it out helped identify the actual traumas. Unfortunately I’d lived thru nearly 40 years of PTSS and abuse. While I do have quite a “toolbox” thatbhelps me keep things mostly ok while awake, the nightmares can be debilitating. Fortunately over the past several years we have found a regime utilizing those tools an medications that allows me to sleep and operate ok much of the time. PTSS will be a part of the rest of my life — however it doesn’t define me any more than the physical disabilities resulting from sc injuries.

Anyone who will likely be put in traumatic situations should FIRST receive training that gives them tools to help mitigate the effects. They should be debriefed very soon after a traumatic situation with the aim of looking at the tools they used and what helped/didn’t help, refining how they use tools, gaining more tools, and addressing parts of the traumatic situation that particularly hot them. Much of this can be done in small (no mire than 10 participants) groups. If they are in a job/career that puts them in traumatic situations often, they should be in a small group meeting on a regular (monthly?) basis that helps them better understand and address those situations when they encounter them.

JMHO/YMMV
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Col Robert Ginn
Col Robert Ginn
>1 y
Lisa, Bingo! I had several cousins in WW2, in combat "(battle of the Bulge), South Pacific Islands, combat ship's complement, etc. All came home, took off their uniforms, went back to school, got married, etc. Drank a bit, of course, but resumed a life. No expert here, just an interested observer. Not belittling others, but there are FAR too many victims out there, me thinks. Go ahead. Lock and load.
B. Ginn, Col, USAF (ret)
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SGT Unit Supply Specialist
SGT (Join to see)
4 y
You might want to check the DSM-5, it is still called PTSD and the most current ICD-10 codes also refer to it as PTSD. Whatever you call it, you have no right to judge others and suggest they grow up and move on. You don't know their experiences and can't decide how they should react to them. Most cases are born of traumatic events, but unless you are a licensed mental health counselor, you can't diagnose PTSD and you certainly can't state that someone doesn't have it because you don't deem their experience as 'traumatic enough.'
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CPT Topher Murphy
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I'm going to have respectfully disagree. Here is the criteria from the DSM-5.
Criterion A
A person was exposed to one or more event(s) that involved death or threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or threatened sexual violation.

That being said a person developing an anxiety based disorder would reasonable based on the info provided.
I would also wonder how an officer was separated, as they can't be chaptered out.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
I will have to agree and disagree.

I agree that separation of officers is vague, as there is no provisions to chapter out those suffering from PTSD.

An officer was relieved and the cause was reprisal for submitting an IG complaint of FW&A against his COC. This happened only after the officer's IG complaint was compromised and leaked to those implicated in the Complaint. However; the Command never transferred the Complainant out. The Command continued to reprise against their victim; the Complainant. Then; the Command conducted an EMHE, in reprisal for submitting the IG complaint. Next; the Command tried the Complainant on false charges and, based on those fraudulent accusations the Complainant was eliminated from service.

Given the above; was this Whistleblower; Complainant afforded his Due Process Rights?
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CPT Topher Murphy
CPT Topher Murphy
>1 y
I will stay in my lane as I'm not JAG and do not know UCMJ well enough to comment. My original comment was related to the question about PTSD. So strictly speaking the person would not have a diagnosis of PTSD unless they met the criteria above, as well as many other criteria.

Overall it sounds like the person was screwed over by unit politics.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
DSM-5, CPT Topher Murphy is a guideline upon which medical care professionals can diagnose and treat PTSD. Having said that, does facing the wrath till elimination mean fry till you die or painfully suffer till you are no more? DSM-5 doesn't express death in the toxic language that many experience under toxic leaderships. It is very hard to fit square pegs into perfect round holes, but the exercise is not impossible. Serving as a Casualty Notification and Assistance Officer can eventually lead to PTSD.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Yes, PTSD originitated as a military related phenomena but over the years the medical profession has come to realize that it applies to people in all walks of life. Just recently saw a discussion on PTSD among the survivors of Sandy Hook and have seen speculation that Las Vegas shooting survivors are demonstrating symptoms associated with PTSD.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
Absolutely Sir; no doubt PTSD can be a killer, as suicide tendencies develop in such patients.
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LTC Donell Kelly
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As a retired ANC, I can tell you from experience that PTSD is much more common than reported in the AMEDD. The seemingly endless stream of massive body wounds from down range since ‘03 have left many in the AMMED with multiple deployments both downrange & to various MEDCENS around CONUS. 1year down range service in CHS’s & FST’s (Combat Support Hospitals & Forward Surgical Teams) get their patients directly from the battlefield, received from flight medics in air rescue/air ambulance crews. These personnel are both AD & USAR. 3 year PCS assignments for AD to receiving the wounded @ Landstuhl in Germany, Nat’l Naval Med Cen in DC, & the burn unit in San Antonio are also back filled with many USAR personnel who often extend their service for an additional year’s tour.
That’s anywhere from 1to 3 year assignments where the staff AND all the support staff see severely wounded patients every single day; multiple amputations, ex-fixes, wound vacs on open bellies, ICP (intracranial pressure) monitors sticking out of the skulls swathed in bandages, usually ventilated, etc. Docs in the USAR usually do 90 day rotations, many of them trauma/ICU docs from civillian trauma hospitals, who freely admit that the battle trauma is many times more severe. Nurses, medics, lab & radiology techs serve 1-3 yrs, depending on AD or USAR status.
The sights, sounds, smells, colors of the wounds are a daily immersion in the horror of acute & massive trauma. Add to that the additional ongoing interactions with pt families, their grief, fear, & anger, & you have classic sensory & emotional overload. For those serving down range, mortars, IED’s, VBIED’s, etc, it’s compounded. Unfortunately, since the AMEDDare the “fixers & healers” there is both personal & self-imposed professional pressure to stuff it down, step up, keep on going, etc. Often, the stuffed down feelings come back to haunt us years down the road. So the question of whether or not non-combat PTSD happens, at least in the AMEDD, is a moot point.
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SSG Edward Tilton
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Everyone piled on claiming Post Traumatic stress because there was no toilet paper. Deluged by these claims the VA accepted almost all of them. Then they didn't want anyone talking about the stressors because we were upsetting the others. How sad. Most never fired their weapons much less saw combat. We need to seperate COMBAT RELATED POST TRAUMATIC STRESS from anxiety disorder. As it is it interferes with the treatment of those who need it
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
PTSD or PTSS is caused by a traumatic experience, whether in Combat or in Peacetime. The experience can be unexpected and more stressful in Peacetime, than in Combat that is expected. Read my manuscript "Leadership of Shame"; the Command charged a Seasoned Veteran with fake allegations, in reprisal for blowing the whistle against illegal activities. The Service hid the evidence past 10 years, which made the experience even more stressful. I ask you to please study my manuscript carefully.

Separation of PTSD or PTSS into Combat and non-combat groups presents a problem with discrimination based on where disability was caused. The stress is identical, whether in Combat or not. This is not downgrading combat related stress at all.

The fact people take undue advantage of PTSD rules is insane, but then so are overrated or underrated performance appraisals and discharge based on fake charges. Who is to blame for such a messy job in a so-called organized institution that condemns these activities, in writing?
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MSG Dan Castaneda
MSG Dan Castaneda
>1 y
Absolutely agree with you Ed. That acronym has been thrown around way to loosely. I've heard of service members getting out and as they do their final physical, the doctor is trying to convince them that they have it. If you've been in the military long enough, you automatically seem to be more aware of your surroundings as the "stay alert, stay alive" mentality is pounded into our head. Yet, if the doctor asked if you are ever paranoid around people, then you have PTSD.
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1SG Retired
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
It is an urban legend that VA accepted almost all PTSD claims. Recent VA OIG report states VA denied 46% of MST PTSD claims. From 2010 to 2015, the VA approved 29 percent of claims for chronic multi-symptom illnesses and 14 percent for infectious diseases.
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AA Joseph Moody
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About 2 years ago I signed on to help an indie project on a game that wanted to seriously tackle darker themes (game project folded unfortunately) and one thing that we found out was that empathy is a bitch.

In that endeavor over the course of about 6 months our group went from fully well functioning individuals to a neurotic mess, and while I would not jump on the PTSD bandwagon for that there is a type of trauma that happens when you have to get into the persona of people in ugly situations, and unfortunately our minds have evolved faster than our brains. What makes a horror movie so enjoyable is that we all know it is just make believe, even if we suspect that disbelief for a few moments, and part of the art of making one of those entertaining is having an understanding of how the mind works and engaging as much of our deep rooted primitive brain circuits as we can. There is a reason why some of the best directors and writers are full blown psychopaths.

Now as to dealing with a bureaucratic system...'a flight or fight response' is a 'flight or fight response', and a threat is a threat. our brains are wired to deal with threats and to prime ourselves to deal with it, but think of it in these terms, imagine a situation where you need to push your threat detection abilities to not only understand and deal with the current issues but to navigate the meta issues of the movings going on behind the scenes, what traits would aid you in that? More paranoia? More introspection on why that person's face flushed and their voice had what could only be described as a post orgasmic bliss to it while they were giving you that bad news? Would triple extra checks and hyper vigilance to documentation be of benefit?

Our brain while it may be lagging behind in some areas it is VERY good at dealing with threats to survival, and if it thinks keeping you up for 5 extra hours every night while your mind envisions scenarios of what happened and what might have happened behind the scenes is a good thing, then you had best get use to getting by on three hours sleep.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
Can PTSD affect persons in non-combat situations and; can PTSD evolve into a permanent disability and; how to handle flashbacks of negative moments of the ordeal that caused the PTSD? Use the KISS principles.
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AA Joseph Moody
AA Joseph Moody
>1 y
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana - There is quite a bit of documentation on this subject, I do feel that needs pointed out.

Now my issues with the non-combat term aside, let us look at this from a point of view of trauma and reaction.
Now some years back I was working as a math tutor for a young man and the long and the short of it was he was having considerable issues doing any work at my kitchen table, outside of session he would be the most polite and civil young man you would ever want to deal with, but when he was over and we were at the table he would go off at the slightest provocation. Now by happenstance I discovered that we could work in the garage and his personalty much improved. Now at this point I know there is something going on but my job is to help this man transition from arithmetic to trig.

Now in this case the practical workaround situation was to move the lessons to a location that was not a problem (although a visit to a headshrinker was still in order) and a year later I learned from the young man's younger brother that their mother use to beat the ever living crap out of them when they were doing homework if "they were wasting time"...

Now is that PTSD, well quite frankly I'm not a shrink, is that a long lasting condition that impacted aspects of his life? Very much so yes. How was it handled? We found a workaround to get this kid through his next two years of school. Is it a permanent disability...I will say that there is a point where some people should endeavor to include periodic mental health checkups into their life, while there is some debate about cure there is also the consideration of quality of life improvement due to seeking assistance in correcting behavior. There is something to be said about an having articulated awareness of our more detrimental personalty traits and putting forth the effort to mitigate them in our daily life.

Side note, some cognitive issues that impair math performance can be mitigated by the use of using graph paper to work on and only having the current problem visible, but as always YMMV.
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SPC Stacey DeMoss
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Yes sir, it sure can. I can't say that word here. Physical, emotional and sexual abuse are truly evil things. They can and will destroy and forever taint the mind of the abused.
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LTC Aeromedical Psychologist
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This criteria must be met for a diagnosis of PTSD to be met.

The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence, in the following way(s):

Direct exposure
Witnessing the trauma
Learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to a trauma
Indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma, usually in the course of professional duties (e.g., first responders, medics)

That’s the T in PTSD. There, of course, is other criteria but absent a T there is no PTSD.

But let’s say he did meet the criteria. A diagnosis does not mean discharge. First the Soldier has to have received proper care (or refused care). Then, the Soldier must be permanently non deployable. At that time, a medical discharge can be pursued.

Details are limited but I’m hard pressed to think how your friend would meet criteria.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
4 y
So; in that case LTC (Join to see) Sir there was a failure to process properly, I believe.

The subject had direct T exposure as one or more of his superiors threatened his military service because he blew the whistle on irregular behavior and actions. The boards, as I have read, were predetermined. This subject was not treated, but discharged from an Army hospital with a clean bill of health and no restrictions after eight days.

In such cases, what are the steps the subject can take towards addressing and correcting his records? Your advice is much-appreciated Sir.

Thanks and respectfully,
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LTC Aeromedical Psychologist
LTC (Join to see)
4 y
Not sure having a career threatened, though traumatic, meets the criteria, unless you’re in the mafia. Legal consultation is the best advice I can give. CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
4 y
LTC (Join to see) Sir, it was mafia-like process and events. The IG denied use of Protected Communications to the Command, twice; however, despite these denials from the IG, Protected Communications were used by the Command to discriminate and destroy a career officer's livelihood, in reprisal, for blowing the whistle. A board recorder submitted on several occasions that without use of the forbidden documents the Government had no case, which board members cleverly ignored, because the Commander wanted them to do so. This is what I understand of this case. Legal representation became so costly that it was beyond means for the subject. Your advice is well taken Sir and much-appreciated.

Thanks for the advice.
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PO3 Sondra Baier
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Well I know for a fact I didn't go to combat but the things that happened to me in my military career 10 years definitely compounded and made my PTSD complex and brought me to a seven year old emotional state and Mister trying to prove that I get pushed out for higher 10-year when I'm Medical Board and now the VA won't even consider me as PTSD and I got to go through the whole thing again disassociation panic attacks nightmares fatigue you name it I have it but I didn't go to combat therefore do you think I'm discriminate against absolutely
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
This is truly sad PO3 Sondra Baier. We don't volunteer for military service to contract a disability like severe PTSD; we serve our Nation voluntarily to earn honor and respect. Our superiors are charged with guiding and coaching us to achieve our goals, yet many do the complete opposite. Remember, blame will always be twisted against the least powerful; the blame game is an escape from possible consequences. This is shameful, indeed.
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