Posted on Dec 3, 2021
Can refusing to sign an NCOER hurt a NCOs career?
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If an NCO doesn't agree with their rating and bullets for their NCOER and refuses to sign, what can the possible outcomes be for that NCOs and their career?
HRC
NCOER
Promotion Board
Senior Human Resources NCO (S1)
Career Counselor
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 7
"NCOER and refuses to sign"
The rated SM can do anything they want.
They can not however justify the refusal and prevent negative consequences for their action.
If one of my NCO's refused to sign his NCOER, Id take the time to review further, research, speak to the rater and senior rater. Then speak to the NCO, Id lay out what the regulation states, explain that signing it is like signing a speeding ticket. Your not agreeing to what it said you did (or did not do)
You agree you got it and that the admin data is correct. Id give said NCO 24 hours to consider the issue and information presented, then have the rater meet with the NCO again. If he still refused to sign, Id process the NCOER as required and then work on that NCO's administrative punishment and separation packet personally in an effort to rid the Army of a NCO who is unable to use even basic logical reasoning, listening skills and basic research skills to understand why they are in the wrong.
The rated SM can do anything they want.
They can not however justify the refusal and prevent negative consequences for their action.
If one of my NCO's refused to sign his NCOER, Id take the time to review further, research, speak to the rater and senior rater. Then speak to the NCO, Id lay out what the regulation states, explain that signing it is like signing a speeding ticket. Your not agreeing to what it said you did (or did not do)
You agree you got it and that the admin data is correct. Id give said NCO 24 hours to consider the issue and information presented, then have the rater meet with the NCO again. If he still refused to sign, Id process the NCOER as required and then work on that NCO's administrative punishment and separation packet personally in an effort to rid the Army of a NCO who is unable to use even basic logical reasoning, listening skills and basic research skills to understand why they are in the wrong.
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1. Signing has nothing to do with the ratings, it’s verifying the admin data
2. If you disagree with the ratings, I’d ask if there are counselings that go with those ratings
3. If you have evidence that you outperformed those bullets, consider a rebuttal
4. Have you tried having a conversation with your rater to gain clarity on the issues?
My advice- sign it. If you have substantiating evidence to back up a rebuttal, rebuttal. Either way, engage in the dialogue and listen to understand not defend. You may hear something you need to in order to grow.
I just had one of these conversations. They aren’t fun, they aren’t comfortable, but they’re necessary on the path to self-improvement.
Stay humble, stay hungry.
2. If you disagree with the ratings, I’d ask if there are counselings that go with those ratings
3. If you have evidence that you outperformed those bullets, consider a rebuttal
4. Have you tried having a conversation with your rater to gain clarity on the issues?
My advice- sign it. If you have substantiating evidence to back up a rebuttal, rebuttal. Either way, engage in the dialogue and listen to understand not defend. You may hear something you need to in order to grow.
I just had one of these conversations. They aren’t fun, they aren’t comfortable, but they’re necessary on the path to self-improvement.
Stay humble, stay hungry.
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I never received any counselings or anything of that sort from my rater or senior but they still gave me qualified, even though my bullets are great and I outperformed my peers they only gave me met standard.
CPT Lawrence Cable
SSG Zachary Kelly - I had a commander that considered a 298 on the old APFT as Meets Standards. Signing just means the administrative stuff is correct and that you received it. You can always rebut it.
Have you seen the Ratings from your Senior Rater? The only bad OER a commander ever gave me was basically cancelled by the Senior Raters comments. My favorite was " Lt. Cable performed brilliantly under extremely trying circumstances". I think that was code for "we just relieved the moron that wrote this crap". I think every NCO in the company above E-5 made a formal complaint to the BN SMG on this guy. You don't last long when you piss of the Operations NCO and 1st Sgt, as well as all the PSG's.
Have you seen the Ratings from your Senior Rater? The only bad OER a commander ever gave me was basically cancelled by the Senior Raters comments. My favorite was " Lt. Cable performed brilliantly under extremely trying circumstances". I think that was code for "we just relieved the moron that wrote this crap". I think every NCO in the company above E-5 made a formal complaint to the BN SMG on this guy. You don't last long when you piss of the Operations NCO and 1st Sgt, as well as all the PSG's.
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SSG Zachary K. - I have a soldier in the same boat. I am the rater and gave the soldier great comments that I thought they deserved. The SR never counseled the soldier and told me to either add negative comments to my bullets (which I refused to do) or they won't change the SR eval from "qualified" to "highly qualified". I have been trying to figure out how to address this, I have been trying to talk with the BC through the open door policy but I am in the reserves so that could take weeks or longer. Did you make any progress?
https://asktop.net/q-and-a/what-does-my-signature-mean-on-the-ncoer/
Here is my take refusal to sign will be documented and it could show a pattern. I rated numerous NCOs throughout my career, one SGT refused to sign. The BLUF is my rater a CSM instilled some knowledge and it was signed. So do what your career can handle. You always have the opportunity to submit a rebuttal to the board if you feel it has a negative effect on your promotion or professional growth.
Here is my take refusal to sign will be documented and it could show a pattern. I rated numerous NCOs throughout my career, one SGT refused to sign. The BLUF is my rater a CSM instilled some knowledge and it was signed. So do what your career can handle. You always have the opportunity to submit a rebuttal to the board if you feel it has a negative effect on your promotion or professional growth.
Q&a | AskTOP.net - Leader Development for Army Professionals
AR 623-3paragraph 2-10b(5) Review and sign the evaluation report after it has been completed by the senior rater before departing from aunit of assignment
It shows the NCO is stupid. Signing the NCOER is verification of admin data only. It is not an agreement with the rating. People seem to forget this. Not signing shows the NCO is a dumbass.
Can't speak for Army, and I never refused to sign. The guidance from above with USMC Sr. Enlisted was to sign, but always file a rebuttal. At least your side of it all is in your record. It was the Reviewing Officer's job to amplify comments and markings of the Reporting Senior. The Boards consider all things that matter.
This goes in line with a Soldier not signing a counseling. Before a Soldier refuses to sign they should
1. Ask for the counselings to back up the rating. To clarify the bullets.
2. You have a senior rater, nothing wrong with engaging them about it.
3. A supplementary reviewer is there as well. Speak with them if you feel the need is warranted.
4. A rater and rated Soldier shouldn’t take anything above personally, a NCOER/OER shouldn’t be a vendetta.
There are many ways to address a grievance with a rating that’s appropriate. Also make sure you understand the rating scheme before you roll up half cocked on people. Regulations exist for a reason. If a Soldier has a real issue don’t just give them the “just sign it and we will address it.” Set time aside to address it.
1. Ask for the counselings to back up the rating. To clarify the bullets.
2. You have a senior rater, nothing wrong with engaging them about it.
3. A supplementary reviewer is there as well. Speak with them if you feel the need is warranted.
4. A rater and rated Soldier shouldn’t take anything above personally, a NCOER/OER shouldn’t be a vendetta.
There are many ways to address a grievance with a rating that’s appropriate. Also make sure you understand the rating scheme before you roll up half cocked on people. Regulations exist for a reason. If a Soldier has a real issue don’t just give them the “just sign it and we will address it.” Set time aside to address it.
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