Posted on Feb 5, 2014
Capital Punishment For Rape Under 10 USC 920 UCMJ 120 ?
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UPDATED 1/6/2015: ****** MILITARY COMMAND / LEADERSHIP QUESTION ******
Please remember my goal was to stimulate discussion of what can be done to prevent rape in the military . . . not to discuss the merits of the death penalty for rape. Many responded with concern death penalty may be implemented based on uncorroborated word of one potentially unreliable individual witness.
Please allow me to narrow discussion to the hypothetical case where a unanimous verdict could be secured based on incontrovertible evidence . . . the gang rape over extended period of time of a younger nursing officer in my charge . . . where the responsible service member was a drug dealer who got her hooked on heroin . . . abused her until he was bored . . . turned her over to others who continued to abuse her . . . they got her infected with so many STDs she lost the ability to ever have a child . . . and when he was finally hunted down and brought back to our unit . . . he bragged about what he had done . . . taunting us by saying we could do nothing . . . because command would seek to avoid an open public trial . . . so they would do everything they could to cover it up. The criminal conduct occurred in an active combat zone where the nurses were outnumbered 1000:1 . . . SE Asia early '70's . . . the drug dealer's admission is corroborated by extensive reliable physical evidence and witness testimony.
How do you feel about imposing death penalty for rape under special circumstances in a combat zone here?
What would you do under these circumstances if you were a young 1LT 66H Med-Surg Nurse in the USANC?
What would you do under these circumstances if command stonewalled any investigation / prosecution?
Warmest Regards, Sandy
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<div>Dear Colleagues,</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe this is unwise, but I'd like to stimulate discussion about what may work.</div><div><br></div><div>The WikiPedia suggests that the military may impose the death penalty for rape.</div><div><br></div><div>Is death penalty still authorized? If so, why hasn't it been imposed since 2008?</div><div><br></div><div>Some argued rape was not charged in Vietnam because it led to death penalty.</div><div><br></div><div>Would a return to the death penalty for rape end sexual assault in the military?</div><div><br></div><div>I am not sure we can educate sexual predators; but we can shock & awe them!</div><div><br></div><div>Whether we return to death penalty or not, how do we stop rape in the military?</div><div><br></div><div>Warmest Regards, Sandy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>"5. Unlike the other capital offenses under the UCMJ, the text of Article 120 does not explicitly state that the death penalty is available, since such language was removed in a 2007 revision. However, the revision stated that the maximum penalty remained death, until the President specified otherwise. See National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2006, PL 109–163, January 6, 2006, 119 Stat 3136, §552(b). Subsequent Manuals for Courts Martial, issued under the President's authority, continue to describe the maximum penalty for rape as death. See Manual for Courts-Martial (2012) Appendix 28(f)(1)."</div><div><br></div><div>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military">Capital punishment by the United States military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">The military of the United States executed 160 soldiers and other members of the armed forces between 1942 and 1961 (these figures do not include German prisoners of war, war criminals, spies, and sab...</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>
Please remember my goal was to stimulate discussion of what can be done to prevent rape in the military . . . not to discuss the merits of the death penalty for rape. Many responded with concern death penalty may be implemented based on uncorroborated word of one potentially unreliable individual witness.
Please allow me to narrow discussion to the hypothetical case where a unanimous verdict could be secured based on incontrovertible evidence . . . the gang rape over extended period of time of a younger nursing officer in my charge . . . where the responsible service member was a drug dealer who got her hooked on heroin . . . abused her until he was bored . . . turned her over to others who continued to abuse her . . . they got her infected with so many STDs she lost the ability to ever have a child . . . and when he was finally hunted down and brought back to our unit . . . he bragged about what he had done . . . taunting us by saying we could do nothing . . . because command would seek to avoid an open public trial . . . so they would do everything they could to cover it up. The criminal conduct occurred in an active combat zone where the nurses were outnumbered 1000:1 . . . SE Asia early '70's . . . the drug dealer's admission is corroborated by extensive reliable physical evidence and witness testimony.
How do you feel about imposing death penalty for rape under special circumstances in a combat zone here?
What would you do under these circumstances if you were a young 1LT 66H Med-Surg Nurse in the USANC?
What would you do under these circumstances if command stonewalled any investigation / prosecution?
Warmest Regards, Sandy
------------------------------
<div>Dear Colleagues,</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe this is unwise, but I'd like to stimulate discussion about what may work.</div><div><br></div><div>The WikiPedia suggests that the military may impose the death penalty for rape.</div><div><br></div><div>Is death penalty still authorized? If so, why hasn't it been imposed since 2008?</div><div><br></div><div>Some argued rape was not charged in Vietnam because it led to death penalty.</div><div><br></div><div>Would a return to the death penalty for rape end sexual assault in the military?</div><div><br></div><div>I am not sure we can educate sexual predators; but we can shock & awe them!</div><div><br></div><div>Whether we return to death penalty or not, how do we stop rape in the military?</div><div><br></div><div>Warmest Regards, Sandy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>"5. Unlike the other capital offenses under the UCMJ, the text of Article 120 does not explicitly state that the death penalty is available, since such language was removed in a 2007 revision. However, the revision stated that the maximum penalty remained death, until the President specified otherwise. See National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2006, PL 109–163, January 6, 2006, 119 Stat 3136, §552(b). Subsequent Manuals for Courts Martial, issued under the President's authority, continue to describe the maximum penalty for rape as death. See Manual for Courts-Martial (2012) Appendix 28(f)(1)."</div><div><br></div><div>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military">Capital punishment by the United States military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">The military of the United States executed 160 soldiers and other members of the armed forces between 1942 and 1961 (these figures do not include German prisoners of war, war criminals, spies, and sab...</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>
Death Penalty
Court Martial
UCMJ
Crime
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 36
When I was stationed at GTMO, we had an interesting Rape case. A Navy wife, who was known to frequent the club while her husband stayed home watching the kids, showed up one night at Marine Barracks. She ran into a couple Marines and they invited her in. One thing led to another and she decided to have sex with them. One of the Marines, a young L/Cpl banged her so hard he was shoving her along the carpet and she got carpet burns on her back. When her husband saw the carpet burns, he asked her how she got them and that's when she broke down crying and told him that she was raped by two Marines. The JAG prosecuting was a friend of mine. He said that other Marines came up to him trying to defend the two that were accused and he had several tell him that they had screwed her. [Oops!!!] Suffice it to say, she had quite the reputation and was known as "The Base Mattress." I feel sorry for her husband having to endure the humiliation of everyone knowing his wife was cheating on him. He was the responsible one in the relationship taking care of his children. When his wife was put up on the witness stand, the moment she opened her mouth, her frivolous allegations fell apart and she ended up being a great witness for the defense... In the end, all charges were dropped.
But what if she wasn't so bad at lying and was able to convince others that the Marines raped her. It's her word against theirs. So who's right? She had carpet burns on her back. Was there a struggle? Sometimes things aren't what they seem at first glance. I'm for the death penalty but am very wary about making it a punishment for rape. It could really be abused by unscrupulous women setting up guys they were mad at... not that women would lie and do such things! ; )
But what if she wasn't so bad at lying and was able to convince others that the Marines raped her. It's her word against theirs. So who's right? She had carpet burns on her back. Was there a struggle? Sometimes things aren't what they seem at first glance. I'm for the death penalty but am very wary about making it a punishment for rape. It could really be abused by unscrupulous women setting up guys they were mad at... not that women would lie and do such things! ; )
So here's my thought. Will it decrease the numbers of rapes? Absolutely. I also believe that if the penalty for speeding was death then speeders would decrease as well. Although effective I'm not sure it's the answer. Why? Because I think there's a broad spectrum of categories of the term "rape" now. By that I mean circumstances. We have to ensure the punishment fits the crime. Should a person who engaged in something that was initially consensual between to "tipsy" participants which one later changed their mind but the other decided to finish be punished by the same means as the predator who hunted, attacked, beat and savaged another? Probably not. Although both wrong, circumstances are very contrasting. I think what it comes down to in capital punishment is the same as it is in murder. Premeditation. Are you an evil person who planned this or did you make a bad decision.<div>Much like the speeder, there's a difference between someone driving across country with the cruise set at 10 over and someone street racing down the highway doing 120 in a 55 in traffic.</div>
SPC Leisel Luman
True rapist or pedophile can not be rehabilitated. No amount of awareness classes, incarceration, or castration will change that deviation.
SGT Steve Oakes
Capt. Rose it has also been proven that an executed offender is never going to be a repeat offender!
SPC Leisel Luman
As a RN worked in hospice and I am fully aware of the beneficial side effects of THC. After a compounded series if traumatic events I have been prescribed a lengthy list of mental health medications. After PTSD completely destroyed my life and in crisis a elderly widow lady from Colorado said "oh honey you just need to smoke a bowl" and I did. It has less side effect and more positive impact on me. It dampened down the constant state of panic when my Fight or Flight was out of control. It gave my sanity back. I'm personally against smoking it because of a lung condition but have used a vaporizer. It only warms it to the temp to release the THC without the smoke damage to lungs. It worked for me. Alcohol is legal but even my dumbazz ShihTzu knows vets with PTSD flair up should NEVER drink alcohol !!!! I would rather deal with a vet that smoked a joint than one who drank alcohol any and every day of the week. I know I can't drink alcohol when I'm having a episode. I certainly can not drink alcohol if I'm compliant with my prescribed medication. I personally was on the lowest dosages of medications and was able to function better. Living in the state I now reside my medication dosages are higher my quality of life is lower and I'm I'm seriously considering relocation back to a state that won't jail me over personal use pot. So put that in your fancy PHD pipe and smoke it. Any one who read my post from this morning knows I'm not vaporizing THC only out of fear of what would haven to me . The Federal Government classified it as worse than Heroin. Check out Breaking the Taboo on netflix sometime and you will hear it from prior Presidents and Heads of State how the laws got this way. It the War on Drugs Political Clustrfuk.
As a victim of an attempted sexual assault I have to be honest and say emotionally I would love to see the bastard who tried to assault me assassinated but rationally, I know it wasn't about sex but rather a perversion of power. I can say I felt utter betrayal by my platoon leader, on up my chain. They all knew of this Senior NCO's behavior and turned a blind eye. I was a young private in the Army just out of high school. I was scared and alone. I think CMSgt James Nolan said so eloquently a mindset about being "Your Brother's and Sister's Keeper" and truly looking out for one another. Until that mindset changes nothing will sadly change and you will have more young women like myself at the time who left the military angry and disillusioned with their service.
CMSgt James Nolan
PV2 (Join to see) That is exactly (not the praise mind you, but thank you) what I was getting at.
To "poo poo" a claim is disrespectful. To fail to investigate is unsat. I would not be able to sit by quietly and watch that take place. I hate that you experienced both the Assault and lack of faith/action by your leadership. There are a great many cases that go unreported due to lack of trust in the "system". And to add insult to injury, in many instances, when cases go to trial, the victim suffers again.
On one deployment, there was a report of a very young female Airman who had reported to a friend, that an E-6 and 2 E-5s had called out to her as she walked by that they would like to do some very specific things to her. (holy crap was this demeaning) She was afraid to report it, because he was a supervisor. Her friend, who had stones and knew what was right, did. The investigation ensued. The TSgt no-shit, in an interview related words to the effect of that was how they talk on active duty. He was fired, sent home, NJP'd and his home unit put him out.
Last time I checked, that was not how we treat our sisters.
To "poo poo" a claim is disrespectful. To fail to investigate is unsat. I would not be able to sit by quietly and watch that take place. I hate that you experienced both the Assault and lack of faith/action by your leadership. There are a great many cases that go unreported due to lack of trust in the "system". And to add insult to injury, in many instances, when cases go to trial, the victim suffers again.
On one deployment, there was a report of a very young female Airman who had reported to a friend, that an E-6 and 2 E-5s had called out to her as she walked by that they would like to do some very specific things to her. (holy crap was this demeaning) She was afraid to report it, because he was a supervisor. Her friend, who had stones and knew what was right, did. The investigation ensued. The TSgt no-shit, in an interview related words to the effect of that was how they talk on active duty. He was fired, sent home, NJP'd and his home unit put him out.
Last time I checked, that was not how we treat our sisters.
LCpl Brandon Barnes
Whether things change or not, their apathy to the situation is unacceptable and illegal. Not only is that a shameful display of poor leadership, but it is a violation of the UCMJ. I am appalled that you had to experience that, and I offer my most sincere condolences. Rest assured that there are many more good officers and NCOs than bad, and don't let that incident dissuade you from feeling pride in your service and in the armed forces in general. It is for that very reason that we must diligently police our own. I hope you find justice, and if not, solace at least.
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Nevertheless, each person who, when challenged has re-articulated this position did not start out from that premise, but rather from a "false accusations happen" premise. To start by saying "killing innocent people is always wrong, so I oppose the death penalty in all cases" would be less likely to lead to people mistaking your intent.
LCpl Brandon Barnes I appreciate your efforts to keep things civil. Elsewhere on this thread I've noted the unique challenges of line drawing in sexual assault cases, much as you did. Nevertheless, the death penalty has been applied in cases against innocent people in murders as well. If someone is arguing the general innocence opposition to the death penalty, it is a red herring to try to raise sexual assault false accusations. Innocent people are convicted of murder, just as of rape, that is what I was seeking to address (perhaps less clearly or sensitively as I should).