Civil Air Patrol, State Guards, and Professional Courtesy

ALL CONCERNED:
I am a First Lieutenant in the Civil Air Patrol and a Retired Staff Sergeant in the US Army. Here is what I have observed. Last year I was a TAC Officer for the North Carolina CAP Wing Summer Encampment. It was held at the Stanley County Air National Guard Base. Several of the Air Force Personnel did salute me, and I returned the salute with the greeting of the day "AIRBORNE!". Most Air Force personnel did not salute me or any other CAP Senior Member Officers. I shared a few laughs and a few "war Stories" with the Air Force guys there. I wear my Master Parachutist Wings and Combat Infantry Badge on my CAP BDUs, as authorized. I asked one of the NCOs who had saluted why he did it. He said it was because he respected that we volunteered our time to help the Cadets and that he felt that our Cadets should see us as having earned respect. I appreciated it greatly.

I have seen some CAP Officers that seem to think that they are Air Force Officers and have gently and not so gently reminded them we do not hold a commission.

NO MATTER WHAT, Major Belly button was dead wrong, period. We instill in all our Cadets that they will treat all people with courtesy and respect, render the proper military courtesies to all service Members in or out of uniform, and to the officers in the CAP. Our organization is a great place to grow our future Military, Community, and Civic leaders.
PLEASE do not allow the actions of the few to tarnish the opinion you have on the whole. My cadets work hard to do what we require of them. Some Senior members should work just as hard to be the example to the Cadets that they should be.

No No No and Hell No! No they do not warrant a salute or any official courtesy from any active duty/ reserve or guard even if that person is holds that rank in the above 3, but is acting in capacity of CAP. The only courtesy they may be afforded is simply mutual respect for the services they provide the nation. They are not entitled to anything more or less then what is afforded any citizen. CAP is the official auxiliary to the AF as a honorary title only. It holds no official recognition as being a component of the Air Force. They are a civilian corporate non-profit that was chartered by congress to provide three missions, emergency services, aerospace education, and the cadet program. The only time they maybe given courtesy of their positions is if a the member is acting in a leadership role in an emergency management position. Many CAP members are incident commanders qualified to run incident commands under FEMA. In this capacity they hold the management authority under FEMA. This authority would be the some as any state or federal employee in that position. This would be the only official respect garnered a CAP person by anyone interacting with said incident command center.

My previous reserve job was to provide oversight for CAP. I have a bit of insight on the organization. First before blasting them. I will say that for the most part CAP consists of genuine volunteers of people trying to do something good for the community. They come from all walks of life from a civilian who has never served, to current and former military personnel of all branches and statuses. A good deal of them are former military aviators keeping their aviation interests alive. Some are involved in the emergency management aspect and the remainder provide mentorship to the cadet program which is sort of like a melding of scouts with a JROTC unit.

For the most part in my 2+ years of overseeing this program as a reservist, they act fairly professional. In most cases the cadets tend to be fairly locked up and in most instances actually wear the uniform sharper than some AD/R/ANG folks. Every now and then you run you run across a few bad apples, as in the case of your run in with them.

Aside from that. Their ranks only have bearing in their world. They have no UCMJ authority. They cannot be tried for crimes under the UCMJ. They can quit at anytime. The only penalty a CAP person can get is removed from the membership rolls. Unless someone is has a felony conviction or some other serious misdemeanor offences, anyone can join the adult program called the senior member program over the age of 18 as long as they have a HS diploma or GED. For the senior members or SM's they have no accession requirements. There is no stress based basic training or officer training. Anyone can join regardless of their medical status and weight and grooming standards. To become a 2Lt in CAP, as long as they are 21 years or older, one joins takes a few tests on the history of CAP and cadet protection policy. Six months later they pin on 2LT. SM's under 21 earn up to 3 provisional ranks that have no military equivalent called flight officers which look similar to the insignia of AFSROTC cadets. SM's participate in their own version of professional education. Similar to corporate management courses. They do these as well as meet other metrics in specialty tracks which are their equivalent to a duty MOS or AFSC. Once they hit time in grade they get advanced to next promotion. A CAP member can promote up to Lt Col, unless they are appointed into a leadership position such as wing commander or other higher headquarters then they get CAP Col. They have two CAP General's that run their national HQ. A military officer can be advanced to their highest grade up to Lt Col. They now have a enlisted track for military enlisted who chose to be in this track, otherwise a military enlisted person can opt to be in the officer program.

As long as they meet AF grooming standards they are authorized to wear a modified version of the AF uniform, to include service dress, mess dress, flight suits, and the old woodland BDU. The uniform is distinctive enough so it will not be confused with Air Force personnel. The officers wear grey epaulet sleeves on all AF Blue combinations. versus metal on the service coat and blue on the light blue shirt. They wear a specific universal hat device on the AF officer flight cap versus metal rank. They have to do this because they possess no rank authority over military members. Prior/current military members can wear military wings or devices along with CAP wings and devices that would be consistent with what is authorized for wear on AF uniforms by AF personnel.

If they do not meet grooming standards or the member elects to, they are authorized corporate specific uniforms that parallel AF uniforms in spirit. These include the white shirt and grey pants combination with the grey epaulets and CAP devices such as CAP wings and other other specialty insignia. CAP insignia are only allowed on this version so no federal military stuff is worn. They have a blue BDU and flight suit. CAP members wearing corporate uniforms do not render any military customs and courtesies within their own ranks while wearing this variant.

I know its a bit long winded. I figured I would unleash the nature of this organization to better understand where the fit in the big scheme of things.

I've been in CAP for many years, I was a CAP Cadet for many years back in the 70's, and rejoined as a senior member in 1997 while on active duty. I've always struggled with some of the attitudes SOME (often too many) of their senior members. Their views on customs and courtesies and some of the larger people who try to fit into military uniforms has always been a sore spot with me. As you experienced, often when you correct them they get hostile, but to be fair I've seen that from some military people when you try to correct them and you're not in uniform.

I learned a LONG time ago how to respond to the "Who the "F" are YOU to correct ME?" line people give (CAP or military). I first state my name and then say "My rank is irrelevant; you are wrong in how you are wearing the uniform (or whatever they're doing incorrectly) and it doesn't matter if I am an E-1 or an O-10, if someone calls you out on something YOU'RE doing wrong, YOU need to fix it." Then if necessary, I'll see if they want to play "ID Card Flip" with me...

I am a 2Lt in the Civil Air Patrol and I would NEVER disrespect a commissioned officer like that. I am apart of CAP to help mentor cadets and give them a little exposure to the military before they roll into recruiter Snuffys office and get lied to. Individuals such as Maj Flabby give Military style organizations such as the CAP a bad name. What a lot of CAP officers fail to realize is that CAP is like Boy Scouts with planes. Sure they support the Air Force in doing some homeland missions, but at the same time CAP is a non profit organization and is not apart DOD. That "Major" was probably someone that wanted to be in the military and couldn't. I would have lit her up, and I was only a SSgt... you had a lot more bearing than I would have had.

Great post

As it happens, the Civil Air Patrol (CAP) in a manner not dissimilar to that of the US Coast Guard Auxiliary performs functions in support of their parent / sponsoring service. Their rank is not honorary, it is real within their organization, but it has no status in the Uniformed Services defined in Titles 10 and 32 of the United States Code. BLUF: One is not required to render customs or courtesies accorded to rank or precedence to members of those organizations - there is in like manner no prohibition against it either. State Guards or State Defense Forces or State Militias operating under the authority of the Governor of a State are a different thing entirely - their rank is real, and, when worn in conjunction with State Active Duty Orders, given by the Governor through their Adjutant General (or other authority) within the jurisdictional limits of the State has real status over State resources. In some States, the members of the State Guard are afforded status similar to that of a National Guard member. A Federal member should think of a State Guard member in that manner - in a perpetual Title 32 role and not in a position to Command Federal resources or troops - but they are, under the law, really allowed to wear a Federal style uniform, modified to reflect their unique State status and perform their role as an organized State militia.

I think more often than not we tend to worry about others a bit too much and not focus how we live our lives. So the CAP major had a problem with professionalism, did you? I will not tolerate that conduct from my children or myself, others have a good day.

While I would not render a salute to a CAP or CGA officer, the state guard is situationally dependent. We have Indiana Guard Reserve guys that assist with the SRP process, and other pre-mob stuff. I did render courtesies to them. While I can't say that it was required, it was more of a sign of appreciation. While their commissions are solely state, not federal, when I am on a Title 32 status, I am state property. It would make sense, therefore, that I would render courtesies.

Then again, as an E4, I chewed a State Guard CW4's ass for wearing a beret inside of a Staples store.

I was active duty Navy, but I am currently Air guard(Really fun transition!). I can tell you that in my unit you would not get away with that at all. I would match any of my guard guys against any active duty counter parts. But I have worked with other units guard and reserve from all branches that did not fit the military requirements. Leadership sets the tone. We have all served in Active units that you would get away with things that you would never get away with in other units.

As for for the CAP, I have had some interactions with them. I put them in the same group as Coast Guard Auxiliary. They might not fit the military fitness requirements but they serve a critical role in Search and Rescue and do it for the fraction of the cost of Military and most I ever dealt with are professional.

Just my two Cents.

I'll beat this dead horse a while... I've been an officer in CAP and the Real-Man's military for a while. There's always going to be that top 10% and bottom 10%. Any person in any organization who flouts their rules should be corrected. I receive confused salutes while on military bases in my CAP uniform, and I cordially return them. I've only once been engaged with, "What the heck are you wearing?" and I politely explained what CAP was and tried to recruit him. Within the organization, I attempt within reason to enforce uniform and appearance rules; as an incident commander, I've disallowed members to participate in the field or fly if their uniform would get us (CAP) in trouble in a mishap (I've sent people home for seeing the same violation twice--and it's not easy or fun to do). It's easier if you remind them that the corporation becomes liable if the Air Force were to disallow approval based on a uniform reg violation (it's happened before--even in line-of-duty death mishaps). There's also our public relations perception. Children dressed like Navy SEALs (rife with unauthorized garments, equipment, and knives) with the caption "TYPICAL CIVIL AIR PATROL CADETS" does not win points for CAP.

If military members render a courtesy, the easiest action is to simply return it. Once, though, I had to correct a military member. At an encampment on an Army base, three young soldiers left the mess hall where the cadets were standing in line, and one cocky jerk used foul language in front of (but not necessarily at) the cadets about how he was inconvenienced by their use of half the facility. As the senior active-duty member present, I ran them down, identified myself with my military ID, and explained that our presence at the bar was authorized directly by the commander. I was much, much more polite than I should have been. (Though I required them to salute me when I dismissed them.)

The Civil Air Patrol dose not out rank the Army Reserve I hate to break it to her as a 1st Lt Senior Member in the Civil Air Patrol but her rank in the actual Military would be the equivalent of a E-3 . She needs to conduct herself more professionally than that and show respect to a Vetran. Now if she was a State Guard Major it would be a completely different story as the State Guard is considered a part of the Texas State Military Forces and all Officer's must complete 6 month's of OCS wich is the same OCS traning the National Guard has to go through at Camp Mayberry in Austin Texas . The Civil Air Patrol basically just hands you your rank provided you pass the online test you could sit on your ass at home and do that for a few hours .