Posted on Apr 22, 2016
Civilian experience vs military experience: why do the state and Federal H.R. refused to accept military training and experience?
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Posted >1 y ago
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Leadership, management, budgeting, admin,etc... They do accept it if properly framed (understand demilitarized) and will get you a long way. The question should be: where do we fail when it comes demonstrate our military experience for the civilian world? My humble opinion.
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
Sur, my résumé is properly frame. By the ORM regulation. I gave an HR from TSA said because I didn't have any cilivailn expirence?
So that us front if the EEOC of TSA as we speak, also in from AHC of state of Missouri will heard from commission judge on 11 of May. They refuse to accept Military expirence that will be resolved by that date.
So that us front if the EEOC of TSA as we speak, also in from AHC of state of Missouri will heard from commission judge on 11 of May. They refuse to accept Military expirence that will be resolved by that date.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
Understood. Unfortunately there are those over empowered hippies making decisions for which they are not qualified!
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CPT John Sheridan
I agree. I cannot speak for public sector hiring processes, but I have extensive experience in the private sector. Hiring managers, for the most part, aren't looking for the best qualified candidate. They are looking for the candidate that is most likely to fit well into their organization and do the work. In the military, adherence to regulations and requirements and checking all of the boxes is what is required get a job or get promoted. It is very different in the civilian world.
Hiring preferences mean very little in reality. They only come into play when all other factors are equal which means they rarely matter. A résumé and cover letter serve only to get past the HR clerk with a checklist. To that end, they are critically important. A nice one gets beyond that step, but beyond that step, qualifications mean nothing. They very fact one has been offered an interview means that one is qualified. The rest comes down to the ability of the candidate to demonstrate or communicate how well he can fit into the organization. In this, a variety of intangible qualities come into play.
Military experience is a plus, but is far from a deciding factor. Far more important are verbal and written communication skills, the ability to present oneself well, and demonstration of knowledge of the position and organization for which one is applying. Far too many job seekers show up to an interview ready to talk about themselves, but with no knowledge of the position or organization to which they applied. The hiring process is not a beauty contest. It is a courtship.
Hiring preferences mean very little in reality. They only come into play when all other factors are equal which means they rarely matter. A résumé and cover letter serve only to get past the HR clerk with a checklist. To that end, they are critically important. A nice one gets beyond that step, but beyond that step, qualifications mean nothing. They very fact one has been offered an interview means that one is qualified. The rest comes down to the ability of the candidate to demonstrate or communicate how well he can fit into the organization. In this, a variety of intangible qualities come into play.
Military experience is a plus, but is far from a deciding factor. Far more important are verbal and written communication skills, the ability to present oneself well, and demonstration of knowledge of the position and organization for which one is applying. Far too many job seekers show up to an interview ready to talk about themselves, but with no knowledge of the position or organization to which they applied. The hiring process is not a beauty contest. It is a courtship.
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
Sir, it doesn't matter the H.R. only want cilivailn experience only they do not accept Military As a real job ask the department of Veteran Affairs an other federal agencies.
Until the HR be charge discrimination it will be changed until then Military is not a real job or experience and only civilian experience count
Until the HR be charge discrimination it will be changed until then Military is not a real job or experience and only civilian experience count
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Top,
This treatment by cilivailn H.R. is the professor telling these young person Military isn't a job.
But after May 11, State of Missouri will force the state Agencies H.R. will accept Military expirence over cilivailn experience.
Hiw MN any veteran's denied of jobs because of favorite of a civilian over veteran's
This treatment by cilivailn H.R. is the professor telling these young person Military isn't a job.
But after May 11, State of Missouri will force the state Agencies H.R. will accept Military expirence over cilivailn experience.
Hiw MN any veteran's denied of jobs because of favorite of a civilian over veteran's
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I doubt you'll remember "Veteran Preference" in federal hiring practices in the decade after Vietnam officially closed up shop in 1975. It was huge and it was posted everywhere. It was written into notices for all job openings at the federal level. I was on two federal registers as the top candidate for the FBI and the BATF in the Chicago Field Division, which covered about nine states at the time. I was never hired. There were, and still remain to this day, two lists of candidates. It's smoke and mirrors, SGT Jay Ehrenfeld, smoke and mirrors.
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
In 1984 (Stotts v Memphis Fire Department) President Reagan DOJ had abandoned the department's traditional vigorous enforcement of Federal Equal Employment laws Department under Assistant Attorney Reynolds.
In 1987 testimony before Congress and he department would end the use of any goals and time table as a remedy to correct discrimination.
In 2009 new Haven firefighters v city of New Haven Conn aka new Haven firefighters reverse discrimination. In 5-4 white can be promoted and hire over minority and woman . Employers beening fear of being sue by then minority and woman is mute. Whute man be hired over them.
WWW.civil-rights.org/resources/civilrghts101/affirmativeaction.htm
In 1987 testimony before Congress and he department would end the use of any goals and time table as a remedy to correct discrimination.
In 2009 new Haven firefighters v city of New Haven Conn aka new Haven firefighters reverse discrimination. In 5-4 white can be promoted and hire over minority and woman . Employers beening fear of being sue by then minority and woman is mute. Whute man be hired over them.
WWW.civil-rights.org/resources/civilrghts101/affirmativeaction.htm
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MSgt Msgtroy Foster
If you accept civilian experience you must,accept military experience or face discrimination law,suit
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Sgt. Ehrenfeld, it is a matter of properly packaging a resume. I know many Federal HR specialists that have military background.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
Sgt major, do with respect my federal resume is in the OPM regulations, when a federal HR from TSA saying I do not have Any Civilians expirence that telling me as a former Office manager /HR manager and assistant to CSM the military experience and Military Transcript does not count but yet they will hired non experience over Military anytime. Do their priority is minority/woman - Civilians and dead last is Veteran is the biggest homeless population because Iack of job. Because of the false attacks by the left and unchanging by American people about the false claim on veteran s
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
If you would like we can take this off line, I have never heard that statement, I personally know around a 100 former service members who have transitioned to Federal employment. If you would like to go offline on email I would be glad to discuss. Your time!
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Capt Michael Greene
SGT Jay Ehrenfeld - With respect, after reading your posts, I see a possibility that your personality and manner of speaking might be off-putting. Perhaps they just don't want to hire you. Again, with respect. Just trying to help with a different perspective.
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I would suggest that the easiest way to become a government employee is by becoming a contractor in your field of interest. Your government counterparts will have an opportunity to observe your work and get to know you. Then as openings arise you at least have a better chance to apply. I don't know if it has changed much but my experience was that the government hiring process was an order of magnitude longer than the civilian workforce. When I was a civilian it took me a maximum of two weeks to hire someone. Government on the other hand the process from identifying the need and finally getting someone on board can take 6-8 months. As a consequence unless they know you your chances of getting called are slim.
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
CDR, do you as veteran we sign a contract to join the military do you think we are contractor any way but yetvtgecsame timecwe get federal benefits while we are in correct?
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CDR Kenneth Kaiser
Not sure what you mean. What I was saying was that trying to get on with the government after you separate is often difficult. As I indicated the process alone is convaluteted. So one way to get on with the government is to work for a contractor on a government contract doing the work that you ultimately want to do. Then you get to know your government counterparts and they can help you get hired as a government employee. It is an indirect route but it works. I was not suggesting anything adverse.
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CPT John Sheridan gave the PERFECT answer. I've been civilian 20 years after 20 years service. The BIG DEAL in civvie life is the ability to get along with coworkers and bosses. A resume needs to be demilitarized big time. State your veteran status in small print. AND, remember, as a military person, you probably have tremendously much more experience than your civvie competitors. You might need to leave OUT many things so you don't appear over-qualified.
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I feel some HR people are afraid of veterans and then allot of people are afraid that they might lose there job to a veteran who is better qualified. We do everything in leadership positions in the military and we try to get our degrees in the line of business that we want to work when we're done in the military. We can have a perfect resume an all out paperwork in order an we sometimes still get turned down. I've personally ran into ( your over qualified, why do you want to work here, or the look on there face after they look at your resume and application)
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
Maj Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs - sir, I do understand the law better then most people give me credit for.
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
Major,
I do not know your primary MOS is I'm talking a guess your were an OX for BN level .
As a former assistant to CSM that he was an BN and post level CSM, and an firmer office NCOIC and HR NCOIC for the same unit.
Civilians and Military units have to follow dome federal and state regulations and local law.
The only difference is military personnel have follow the UMCJ and civilians does not unless he or she is retired military.
That the only difference between a cilivailn and Military. The decision by the Supreme Court dealing with work issues the federal and state H.R. will have follow the decision the of the high Court even those they don't like.
In favorite of a white man like it or not they have to follow the high Court decision but it example is new Haven firefighters vs city of new haven Conn. Please entirel case also I can give plenty of other example on this matter. And http://www.civilright101.com it also give the court decision. If the Court rules against white man the left will forcing us following policies and not the law
I do not know your primary MOS is I'm talking a guess your were an OX for BN level .
As a former assistant to CSM that he was an BN and post level CSM, and an firmer office NCOIC and HR NCOIC for the same unit.
Civilians and Military units have to follow dome federal and state regulations and local law.
The only difference is military personnel have follow the UMCJ and civilians does not unless he or she is retired military.
That the only difference between a cilivailn and Military. The decision by the Supreme Court dealing with work issues the federal and state H.R. will have follow the decision the of the high Court even those they don't like.
In favorite of a white man like it or not they have to follow the high Court decision but it example is new Haven firefighters vs city of new haven Conn. Please entirel case also I can give plenty of other example on this matter. And http://www.civilright101.com it also give the court decision. If the Court rules against white man the left will forcing us following policies and not the law
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SGT Jay Ehrenfeld
Sir, with all do respect I have been different Mos during my 20 years of service. From part specialist, supply sgt, office NCOIC, transportation, administration asstistant to BN and post level CSM.
All those positions I mention can be transferred to cilivailn jobs.
And also in Desert Storms and shields in 90-91.
You have your degree before you sign up for military and I have mine after I left.
I gave been told two different reason 1. No civilian experience and another excuse us if he his degree while he was in the military it doesn't matter when I have my degree I have my degree.
That and the decision from 2009 new Haven firefighters v. City if New Haven Conn. That is HR . at the in 5-4 decision in favor of white firefighters . you can not reverse discrimination in favor of a minority or a woman a white male can be hired and it promoted over them. Employers can not denied a qualified white man or veteran a job or promotion over them and being fear of a lawsuit by a minority or a woman because a white man got a job over them
All those positions I mention can be transferred to cilivailn jobs.
And also in Desert Storms and shields in 90-91.
You have your degree before you sign up for military and I have mine after I left.
I gave been told two different reason 1. No civilian experience and another excuse us if he his degree while he was in the military it doesn't matter when I have my degree I have my degree.
That and the decision from 2009 new Haven firefighters v. City if New Haven Conn. That is HR . at the in 5-4 decision in favor of white firefighters . you can not reverse discrimination in favor of a minority or a woman a white male can be hired and it promoted over them. Employers can not denied a qualified white man or veteran a job or promotion over them and being fear of a lawsuit by a minority or a woman because a white man got a job over them
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It depends on what it is and what state you are in. There are standards of equivalency...if they can't equate it to similar civilian education, they can't give you credit for it.
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