Posted on Nov 4, 2014
SSG(P) Section Chief/ Platoon Sergeant
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Concealed carry
Should uniformed military be allowed to conceal carry any were in the U.S. with a CAC as a license due to increased threats to military personnel?
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Responses: 337
MSG Wade Huffman
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Actually, it's very easy in Ohio for Active Duty to get a CCP, my son just got his. You need to show a current military ID, proof of residency and a current handgun qualification (he used his Army qualification from the 9mm range), along with a money order for (I believe) $60.00. Took about three weeks to receive his permit in the mail.
I don't believe a CAC card in itself will ever be accepted anywhere as a CCP, but I believe more states should streamline the process for active duty.
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LT Jessica Kellogg
LT Jessica Kellogg
11 y
Same with Virginia
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Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
11 y
MSG Wade Huffman Glad to hear its reasonable in Ohio, but as federal "Armed Forces" should we need permission from the states to bear our arms? Maybe we need to skip the states and go straight to US congress on this one, check out the 9 point post and let us know what you think.
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MAJ Dallas D.
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As much as I support this I don't think it is something that will ever happen. Right now you can't even carry on post.
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SSG(P) Section Chief/ Platoon Sergeant
SSG(P) (Join to see)
11 y
Very true Sir! It's ridiculous to come home from a tour and be targeted at home the same way we are while we are abroad. .....
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SSG Programmer Analyst
SSG (Join to see)
11 y
Being targeted over here we also have our family to think about. We are allowed to protect our brothers and sisters back over there but can not defend our own house hold.
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Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
11 y
MAJ Dallas D. Sir, I understand your pessimism, but there's a lot of convincing reasons, what we need to do is package those convincing reasons together with a doable plan and write a lot of letters to congress. My 9 point post is intended as a workable framework to present to policymakers along with our reasons why we must "Arm the Armed Forces." What do you think of those points above?
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Cpl Karl Gleason
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I don't have a problem with all military members carrying. But, they must be trained and schooled on local laws. I see no reason why the government can't provide this training either. We trust these kids today with access to things far more dangerous than a handgun.
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SSgt Jim Gilmore
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As long as the individual is on active status (Not on leave or other inactive duty status such as pregnancy leave), I see no reason not to be armed IF the member chooses. The member also has the right to NOT carry as well.
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Maj Mike Sciales
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Bad idea. Twenty years of active duty as a JAG have convinced me that would be a terrible idea. Face it -- the military is full of young people all in excellent physical condition. Young people tend to be emotional and prone to being hasty -- that's why we have senior NCOs. Putting more guns out there is appealing to some but I saw an airman go to jail for killing another airman over a spilled beer in the club. GIs have been stabbed, beaten and beheaded (husband chopped off lover's head in a casern in Germany, put it in a bowling bag and brought it to his wife in the Hospital and set the head on the breakfast tray) and otherwise murdered and mutilated spouses, lovers and friends, so giving them unfettered access to deadly weapons will just elevate the body count ON BASE. So settle down and enjoy the fact that crime is so very low on any military installation.
Now -- to stop those mass murders -- everybody needs to take a Xanax and chill out because it seems to me stress is what is tipping all those crazy people over into action.
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MSG John Wirts
MSG John Wirts
>1 y
You SIR have an ID TEN T virus. I have seen "gun Control"(people Control) and freedom to own and use guns. In Germany and Holland- both with STRICT Gun Control, very high violent crime rates!!! I visited my family in Norway and checked out Switzerland. Their rules are that universal service, the young people join the military, and are issued a personal firearm. Unlike the U.S. military, the personal firearm is issued in basic training, based on the mos the person will be trained in. It may be a pistol, a select fire carbine, or rifle, a sub machine gun, this weapon will be the personal weapon through basic and advanced training, and will follow the solder through their unit assignment. When they separate from the active military, their personal weapon is sent home with them, they are issued ammunition, targets and range passes to maintain proficiency and qualification on their weapon!!! These are 18-20 year old military inductees. Violent crime is very low UNLIKE OUR CITIES WITH STRICT GUN CONTROL AND HIGH VIOLENT RATES. England had similar gun ownership laws, the Bobbies carried "Knockers"( to us Colonials that would be night sticks or batons). Violent crime was low . Then They outlawed privately owned firearms, confiscated and destroyed them!!!! Since then VIOLENT CRIME HAS SHOT UP 400%, and the Bobbies are carrying SOB MACHINE GUNS. PARLIAMENT IS CONSIDERING BANNING POINTED KNIVES!!! SO MUCH FOR LIBTARD GUN CONTROL!!!! There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE!!! I hope you will at least consider that gun control is an exercise in futility!
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Maj Mike Sciales
Maj Mike Sciales
>1 y
MSG John Wirts - Settle down, you lost me at "ID TEN T virus" whatever that is and I've no desire to pursue it much further. Your argument is interesting. I'd suggest you might want to live in those places for a little bit and see if it works, because the long pole in the tent is those are all cultures very different from our own. You'll also forgive me if I remind you that one of your peaceful rifle-toting Norwegians killed 77 people at a summer camp. So I'm thinking you might want to re-tool your position. Just a thought, no need to change your life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
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MSG John Wirts
MSG John Wirts
>1 y
Maj Mike Sciales - Sir Id Ten T virus translates to ID10T or if that's too obtuse IDIOT. This was one mass slaying, how many mass slayings have there been it the U.S., Germany, Holland, France??????? England outlawed, confiscated, and destroyed privately owned firearms, violent crime is UP 400% SO MUCH FOR LIBTARD GUN CONTROL! The Sandy Hook shooter broke 42 laws if any one had been enforced no shooting! But it's all about the children. well more people are killed by motor vehicles then guns, I have yet to hear ban motor vehicles! If a drunk driver kills a person, the drunk driver is blamed. If a gang member kills someone with a gun BAN THE GUN NOT THE GANG!!!!! THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE!
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SSG Keith Cashion
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You have to be careful when you say CAC card holders. I have read through a lot of the threads and it seems that this conversation seems to be one sided. I am a CAC card holder, I'm even retired Army, and yes I am a concealed carry permit holder. So what I am seeing is just conversation about Active Duty Soldiers being CCW on base. My opinion...wrong answer. How is it that Soldiers carry on post, but not the civilians who have completed the training and have probably been concealed carry for a long time?
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SSG Training Nco
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I say yes and no. While I think every member in our armed forces should carry a weapon to protect their selves and others around them, I can prolly say every unit has those one or two soldiers everyone is more worried about when they have a weapon. Now what I do think is that ALL CAC holders should have access to Conceal Carry Classes, Weapons safety classes, and any class that could better them in handling weapons. The NO part comes from people who have little to no training. Until those people and even NCO, Warrants and Officers do the initial class or a refresher, they should not be allowed to carry.

Note: I do have my conceal carry permit and I do carry everyday.
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SPC Michael Clark
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The Posse Comitatus Act prevents service members from being able to act as local, state and federal law enforcement agencies can.

Largely due to the Civil War, apparently soldiers would "take over" civilian homes to set up HQ.

It was Congress who passed this act. Therefore, the law prevents service members from being an organized response team in the territories of the United States of America.

Now, if the were to be an "Open War" within the territorial lands of the USA, perhaps the Congress will allow soldiers to do as soldiers do.

Until that occurs, the United States Military is not a police force.

As an individual, a person who just happens to be a service member can can while off post, and while on post must adhere to the Installation Policies, and Unit SoPs.
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MAJ Engineer Officer
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
Concealed-Carry should be permitted to all SMs, on post or off: I'm not a fan of making more or needless laws, but as US Army/Navy/Marine Corps/AF posts are federal institutions, I think it's high time all members of the armed forces, active or reserve, were permitted concealed-carry or even open-carry on any military installations whatsoever, regardless of the state or the state's CCW license laws. Once off-post, one's weapon-rights are again under local jurisdiction, but on post a valid ***service member*** ID should be all the permit we need. We would still be subject to the relevant regulations for bearing weapons while in uniform, and National Guard installations and members would be regulated by the states' Guard Bureaus. Nothing AGAINST Guardsmen and -women, but I draw up short at anything that takes powers, even regulatory powers, FROM the states to give to DC. I don't think I'd make carrying mandatory, though.
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SPC Michael Clark
SPC Michael Clark
>1 y
CW2 Robert Reynolds, if you choose as an individual to carry concealed... then that's your right. The reasoning behind people asking for their CAC being an automatic CCP is not okay as it becomes an organizational topic, especially if the reasoning is so active troops while off duty can respond to threats to the good public order. As a civilian you can respond, but you cannot use the military in any way as Posse Comitatus comes into play which states that the Military can't actually as police.

Then, many post regulations state that personal weapons must be stored in the arms room unless residing in Family Housing.

There is also regulations against carrying concealed on many installations.

Your ID card is not and cannot be used in any capacity to fight or respond criminal acts. Doing such mears that you are using the uniform and therfore the Army to respond to the act, which is where Posse Comitatus comes in.
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SPC Michael Clark
SPC Michael Clark
>1 y
Drew Moore, you reference a state's choice to waive fees for a license. The question asked was in reference to the CAC equaling a CCP. If a state decides to waive fees for veterans and military personnel, then that's that particular state's right. Posse Comitatus Act means that the uniform cannot be used. The CAC is not a hunting nor a fishing permit.

Posse Comitatus still applies, these are not my words but rather the law makers and DoD's words.

Posse Comitatus Act does not prevent a service member from obtaining a CCP on their own, but rather the uniform cannot be used as that blurs the line.

In summation, I am not interpreting the PCA, as it has already been interpreted by government agencies and law makers.
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MSG Senior Supply/Service Sergeant
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Has anyone else heard that the Supreme Court ruled that it is NOT the job of the police to "Protect" us. It's their job to try to prevent/investigate violent crimes. In most cases, they will get to the scene in minutes, when seconds count. So, it's up to us to protect ourselves and our families.They will also have to repaint a bunch of patrol cars.
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SFC Section Ncoic
SFC (Join to see)
10 y
Warren v. District of Columbia established the Public Duty Doctrine. Basically the police have no legal obligation to protect an individual, absent a special relationship between the individual and the police (i.e. while in police custody)
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PO1 Utilitiesman
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I'm a small arms instructor at a military range in Mississippi. There are people that I wouldn't want to share a foxhole with, just by observing their weapons handling skills, or rather, lack thereof. That's not even saying a thing about their lack of knowledge when it comes to applying even BASIC marksmanship fundamentals on a static pistol range with no pressure other than the "2 rounds in 4 seconds" or "4 rounds in 10 seconds, firing 2, conducting a reload, and firing 2 more", even with coaches and Range Staff guiding those that NEED it 1-on-1.

And, while ours IS the profession of arms, to counter the "discharge them if they can't shoot" crowd", discharge non-shooters on what grounds? Not EVERYONE is a rock star when it comes to shooting. We just know who we can use to guard the janitors' closets and nothing else, but that still doesn't make them INCOMPETENT at their actual job. Week before last, we had a supply person that could NOT hit a bull's eye from a pre-sighted rifle locked in a lead-sled, but that person sure as shit processes our open-purchase requests and other supply requests like a champ, but then you have people like the crew out at my range, who are OK at our actual MOSs, but can hit 12/15 consistently on an "E" silhouette at 300 on irons.

That being said, effective concealed carry REQUIRES that you practice drawing from concealment. I don't know about you, but when I get home, I enjoy taking off my 'monkey suit', and not putting it back on unless I have duty or am heading back to work. Ergo, am I going to really (and I mean REALLY) want to put the uniform back on, on an off-day, and go pew-pew? I guess I would, provided the THREATCON was high enough to for me to feel it necessary; it's not that high yet.

And finally, you get into that realm of "personal firearms in uniform". Commanding officers CAN arm those that have a NEED for it with a government firearm. If you feel your need is that great, appeal to your Chain and justify why.
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