Posted on Mar 16, 2014
Confronting stolen valor situations in person. How would you handle these kinds of situations?
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Seeing this post is shocking to many as the veteran said; he had battle buddies who he served with die who were Rangers. As a Soldier, whether Junior ranking, NCO, or Officer, how would you handle a situation like this? Speaking with some guys in my unit, many say they would have went off on this fake. Others say they would have called the police for this situation. Have you recently came across any fakes or knew someone that did? In my opinion, I would have definitely confronted this fake professionally as it is a disgrace to many other service members who served and lost someone close to them. whats your take on this? Do you think the veteran's position was correct in this situation? Let keep it professional.
U.S. Army Veterans spot and confront a fake Soldier wearing MSG Rank and Ranger Tab. After watching the video, what would you have done different?
Servicemembers
Values
Stolen Valor
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 62
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I guess what baffles me is that these people have so little self-respect that they think putting on a uniform they didn't earn will make them feel better about themselves. What's worse - you can Google AR 670-1 and like regulations to find out how to wear the uniform properly, but they don't seem to get that.
I certainly don't condone what they do (and frankly I find them despicable), but if you're going to be an impostor, at least do it in such a way that its actually believable. There are more than enough service members and veterans in this country who will call out a uniform violation in a heart beat. And when they wear the uniform wrong, it screams impostor.
I certainly don't condone what they do (and frankly I find them despicable), but if you're going to be an impostor, at least do it in such a way that its actually believable. There are more than enough service members and veterans in this country who will call out a uniform violation in a heart beat. And when they wear the uniform wrong, it screams impostor.
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LTC Hillary Luton
Yes, because we know how everyone loves a good spin on the news. My other concern is while we are spinning our wheels trying to find answers, the terrorists are already preparing for the next attack.
And you're right, just like weapons obtained illegally, uniforms would be in the same boat. Excellent points as well.
And you're right, just like weapons obtained illegally, uniforms would be in the same boat. Excellent points as well.
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SSgt (Join to see)
LTC Hillary Luton Mam, I would have to loved to work under you. The passion and good sense is a very worthy attribute. Plus clear-headedness is good too.
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LTC Hillary Luton
Oh my gosh SSgt Larry Olson, what an awesome thing to say. Thank you! I am humbled. Rest assured, I make my share of mistakes. But I'll say this much, leadership is easy when I have the opportunity to work with great service members and I have worked with many. :-)
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Oh but impersonating a law enforcement officer is a crime. What ever these posers are doing needs to be made illegal, it's right up there with stolen valor. The officer said the man was not doing anything then WTF is he dressed like that for? Was that cup of coffee given to him free of charge? Is he going to the airport next to get his "free" 1st class upgrade by some unsuspecting compassionate soul? I invite anyone who does things like this to please "freely express" to all us SMs and Vets why you do it.
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SPC Travis Grizzard
He is now claiming to be a cop. As of October 2, he claims, he is a Deputy Sheriff / Officer in Stanislaus, California, working S.W.A.T and patrol.
He also claims to be an E-8, with only 6 years TIS.
He also claims to be an E-8, with only 6 years TIS.
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I would bust him out as hard as I could. I can't stand people like that. But then again I am known for being harsh. While in a police academy we had a kid that his dad was a cop. So that pretty much made him an expert in everything law enforcement, to include shooting. At the range I was showing another trainee some techniques that I use to shoot. He cut in and said that I was pretty much wrong and that he knew really how to shoot. I replied with "MF I have shot MFs in real life. What have you done?" it wasn't the most polite way of saying things but it got my point across. There is no place for people like this. I would bust him out as hard as I could.
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CPT (Join to see)
I just got back from the Iraqi Invasion and got out of the Army. I wasn't the nicest of people back then.
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SGT William B.
Sir, I'm with you. I get freaking mad when people start passing me the plate of crap, to the point that in the two times since I've gotten back a few months ago, I've nearly come to blows with guys that were full of it. The first guy tried telling me that he was in Iraq in 2002 sniping people through windows as they sat down to have dinner with their families. The second tried to tell me that he was directly commissioned out of high school in the Marines as a 1LT due to his combat experience (which apparently came from the playground) and retired 20 years later as a MSgt. That guy also tried to tell me that he hates Intel, that they caused him to lose 32 guys or something similar; if it weren't for a good civilian buddy of mine, I would have picked him up and impaled him on the fence spikes in the smoking patio area.
Looking back at it though, as good as it feels to be angry about it and cling on to the "this is ours, you can't claim it" mentality, it's ultimately done for self-gratification and self-validation. Since the last incident, I make it a point to not ask about folks' veteran status if they wear campaign ribbons, OEF/OIF hats, etc. It's not my job to be the Spanish Inquisition.
Looking back at it though, as good as it feels to be angry about it and cling on to the "this is ours, you can't claim it" mentality, it's ultimately done for self-gratification and self-validation. Since the last incident, I make it a point to not ask about folks' veteran status if they wear campaign ribbons, OEF/OIF hats, etc. It's not my job to be the Spanish Inquisition.
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CPT (Join to see)
True. I never question anyone when they say I served. I get a little jumpy when they start throwing out some crazy combat story in Iraq or Afghan.
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CPT (Join to see)
I had something similar. I was down in New Orleans for Mardi Gras and I ran into a guy was said he was a vet and how he was in Iraq. After a few questions it was obvious that this guy was full of it. Then I ran into his brother. He, the brother, said he served in Iraq. I asked with who, the 101. I was with the 101. So i asked him the city. He said Mosul. I was in Mosul. I asked him at base. He said D-Main. So it turned out that we were on the same base for a while in mosul. He was able to tell me what building he was in and he knew what building I was in. I guess the one that was making it up was feeling left out.
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SGT Smith, actually according to 18 U.S. Code 702 it is illegal to impersonate a member of the United States Armed Forces.
"Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform or a distinctive part thereof or anything similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service or any auxiliary of such, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both." (source is http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/702)
Therefore, they did not have to call him out in public (though I really enjoyed watching it and applaud them for it), they could have just called the cops and had him arrested for violating a federal law. Or in my preference done both, call him out and call the cops to have him arrested.
The table below lists the classification updates, since Jan. 3, 2012, for this section. Updates to a broader range of sections may be found at the update page for containing chapter, title, etc.
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TSgt Phillip L.
That was my thought as well. Why didn't they call and have him arrested? Or...arrest him on the spot with a citizens arrest/detainment while waiting for LE to arrive. Once he stated he didn't have his ID card....and the fake became obvious....it was time to get LE involved. I'm pretty sure during the detainment, the ranger tab would have "fallen" off.
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SSG (Join to see)
18 USC 702 was included in the section of the US Code that was enacted in 2006, and the update was valid as of Jan 3, 2012 however, the ruling in United States v. Alvarez was issued on June 28, 2012 and struck down the Stolen Valor Act of 2005 that contained section 702. It was reintroduced as the Stolen Valor Act of 2013 and signed into law with the change that the individual must be attempting to gain tangible benefits from his "posing" to be prosecuted.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG Thornton, I stand corrected. You are right. http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/258
The question then becomes "did he have the intent to gain some sort of tangible benefit?"
Summary of H.R.258 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Stolen Valor Act of 2013
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Definitely should keep calm and collected, let him know you mean business but don't blow your lid. Take his information, take photos, and report him!
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MSG (Join to see)
SSgt Fair,
I agree, you dont have to go crazy confronting these imposters. But like you report him and take pictures at least. My point is you should never walk past this nonsense!
I agree, you dont have to go crazy confronting these imposters. But like you report him and take pictures at least. My point is you should never walk past this nonsense!
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The turds who perpetrate such a fraud do it to seek attention. I say we're entitled to give them attention.<br>
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC Callan,
He certainly got attention he probably was not expecting. These imposters have no shame in what they are doing and walk around proud willing to dress again and go out in public.
He certainly got attention he probably was not expecting. These imposters have no shame in what they are doing and walk around proud willing to dress again and go out in public.
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These ideas, much like this guy here; Kenneth Croch are pretty easy to spot. I mean really, when these idiots put on their "uniform" it looks like Clothing and Sales threw up on their jacket. I have no problem at all calling them out very loudly and very much in public. These idiots are doing more than practicing their freedom of speech. Some of these idiots are entering the VA health system taking money and causing those of us that really served to have to wait longer to be seen because people like this high-speed feel the need to try and be something they aren't.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
I am not in the Army but I know that you don't wear shoulder loops on the A jacket his US and SF branch insignia are wrong. Someone should inform him that the NDS and PUC's don't go above the three of his second highest medals under the MOH that he is sporting. If I am not mistaken don't you Army guys wear the jump wings on the pocket flap?
You wonder if these guys even fathom that they will be called out for this.
You wonder if these guys even fathom that they will be called out for this.
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PFC (Join to see)
It also looks like he has rank on his arm, hard to see. but there's so many things wrong about this picture especially with whatever that thing is pinned on the beret.
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http://www.ktrh.com/onair/michael-berry-13986/remember-that-veteran-who-confronted-the-12166566/
Meet our personalities, read their blogs & find out when they are on the air!
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TSgt Michael Burke
Liberal college attitudes have continued to grow. We the uniformed (Real Ones) give the freedom to those knuckleheads to degrade our service, the organization and basically spit in our faces so they can act that way. It is a hard one to swallow as more and more people have very little respect for anything these days. Truthfulness starts at the top, the resident of 1600 pen ave has not spoken the truth from day one. When someone does its going against this poor schleps right o be phoney! They should have knocked him on his fat behind.....
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SSgt (Join to see)
TSgt Michael Burke That liberalism is becoming bolder and bolder and the same kinds of stereotypes that followed the Vietnam are becoming readily apparent again. I fear too many cops also display a particular animus towards Veterans of all stripes and that right there upsets me.
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I actually confronted a guy dressed in battle fatigues, two American Flags in a knap sack and a sign talking about PTSD. I first saw him from the truckers day room when I told my buddy that I was going to find out what he was doing. He was collecting money but passing himself off as a veteran.
He got defensive and I told him that I am a real veteran and do have PTSD and it pisses me off you are exploiting the military. I told him if I ever saw him there again like that, I would call the police. Also told that he had no right raising his voice to a veteran.
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MSG (Join to see)
SSgt Olson,
You were definitely in the right for this situation. Also because he was using this to gain benefits, I'm pretty sure he violated the Stolen Valor Act and could have been put in jail. It ironic when these fakes pose as veterans and then come across real veterans with real military background.
You were definitely in the right for this situation. Also because he was using this to gain benefits, I'm pretty sure he violated the Stolen Valor Act and could have been put in jail. It ironic when these fakes pose as veterans and then come across real veterans with real military background.
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A1C Joe Metcalf
I come across people in the same manner, it really disturbs me that people think we have it so good, that they want to pretend to have PTSD. I know I have enough issues with mine, but would gladly hand it over to some one that would really want to have it for real and experience it . thanks guys..
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SSgt (Join to see)
SSG Odum S. - Thanks and agree with you. I was having a hard time then and believed in the cause he was coopting. The McDonald's manager said she would call the police also, if it were to happen again.
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<P>It was bad enough he was in the uniform. Had he been wearing it with no tapes, patches or tabs, I would have been annoyed but probably not approached him. But the minute he put the U.S. Army tape on, he was a SV POS. Anything after that just served to draw the ire of those who had earned that specific patch or tab. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>A mid to late-20s E-8 chillin outside without headgear and hands in pockets? About as likely as a unicorn sighting. </P>
<P>Being in an EOD/Ranger unit in the 101st? I can't say with any certainty if there is or is not such an animal. I'm doubting it.</P>
<P>The defining moment in this video for me was when the young Ranger vet closed the gap and ordered him to remove his Ranger tab...and he did. It was game over after that. </P>
<P>The civilians sticking up for him? To me that is just another reminder of the "participation ribbon" world we exist in. Their pleas to leave him alone because the Ranger vet's point had been made serve to remind us why there are less than 3% of the total population that have served or currently serve in the military. All I heard was Baaaa, baaa, baaa, baaa.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>A mid to late-20s E-8 chillin outside without headgear and hands in pockets? About as likely as a unicorn sighting. </P>
<P>Being in an EOD/Ranger unit in the 101st? I can't say with any certainty if there is or is not such an animal. I'm doubting it.</P>
<P>The defining moment in this video for me was when the young Ranger vet closed the gap and ordered him to remove his Ranger tab...and he did. It was game over after that. </P>
<P>The civilians sticking up for him? To me that is just another reminder of the "participation ribbon" world we exist in. Their pleas to leave him alone because the Ranger vet's point had been made serve to remind us why there are less than 3% of the total population that have served or currently serve in the military. All I heard was Baaaa, baaa, baaa, baaa.</P>
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MSG (Join to see)
SPC Wyckoff,
Exactly my point. I've never seen an 101st Ranger EOD MSG. It sends flags. And to top it off, no headgear, and hands in the pocket? It's unreal. Now I cant say nothing about the age because I had a 1SG who was only 27 I kid you not. However, as I mentioned before, the body language of this so called Soldier was so wrong and out of place. You'd never see a Ranger remove his tab just because someone called him out. They take too much pride in that. As for the civilians; they believed they were defending a "Soldier" because of how he was dressed which pisses me off because this is all they see. It's a discredit to every man and woman that wears or ever wore this uniform. They need to stop playing Soldier and actually have the sense of pride and values to join.
Exactly my point. I've never seen an 101st Ranger EOD MSG. It sends flags. And to top it off, no headgear, and hands in the pocket? It's unreal. Now I cant say nothing about the age because I had a 1SG who was only 27 I kid you not. However, as I mentioned before, the body language of this so called Soldier was so wrong and out of place. You'd never see a Ranger remove his tab just because someone called him out. They take too much pride in that. As for the civilians; they believed they were defending a "Soldier" because of how he was dressed which pisses me off because this is all they see. It's a discredit to every man and woman that wears or ever wore this uniform. They need to stop playing Soldier and actually have the sense of pride and values to join.
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LTC Paul Labrador
There are likely EOD slots in the STB attached to the Ranger Regiment. However, you are correct that a MSG isn't likely going to be holding one of those slots.
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