Posted on Apr 12, 2014
Corrective training vs negative counseling statement
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Obviously some situations are clear. But for those ones that are not. Which is more effective, productive and best for the soldier?
Discipline
Counseling
Corrective Training
UCMJ
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 15
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My answer goes contrary to the current school of thought: smoke session if you want them to learn, negative counseling when you're preparing for UCMJ.
I know that goes against everything the Army says is correct, however policies don't determine what makes great Soldiers, experience and Leaders do. In my short experience, my leaders smoked me until I learned. I still remember doing handstand pushups against the wall and my NCO saying, "there are smart Rangers, and strong Rangers; which one are you?" Paperwork was that ultimate big gun that your leader broke out when it was time to stand before the 1SG.
Taking away the threat of a little sweat leaves that team leader with little in the way of elevating the ROE without going straight to UCMJ.
I know that goes against everything the Army says is correct, however policies don't determine what makes great Soldiers, experience and Leaders do. In my short experience, my leaders smoked me until I learned. I still remember doing handstand pushups against the wall and my NCO saying, "there are smart Rangers, and strong Rangers; which one are you?" Paperwork was that ultimate big gun that your leader broke out when it was time to stand before the 1SG.
Taking away the threat of a little sweat leaves that team leader with little in the way of elevating the ROE without going straight to UCMJ.
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Well you have to know what would get better results. Know your Soldiers and learn how to get the most out of them. If a good smoke session works do it but some need that negative counseling in writing with a plan of action to get their attention. As leaders we should know what gets the attention of our Soldiers to help develope them.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
MSG Quick,
Smoking a Soldier for a perceived infraction is synonymous with punishment. If the Soldier repeats the same offense later, and the paperwork trail leads to NJP under UCMJ, then the Soldier can claim that he/she has already been [illegally] punished for the offense. There is a fine line that many cross unknowingly in terms of "punishment" and "corrective action." The term "corrective action" (when imposed by a leader) should be focused on correcting a deficiency. The only time that "corrective action" should involve physical training or PRT is when the deficiency is a failing APFT score. (See additional post)
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SGM Matthew Quick
SSG Ruth,
Are you saying a corrective action-type event equates to 'punishment'?
Example: A Soldier is late for formation and has to show up 30 minutes early for the next three formations. If the Soldier is late again and the NCO recommends Article 15, the Soldier can successfully claim 'time served'?
I would recommend you seek a legal NCOs perspective on this situation.
Example: A Soldier is late for formation and has to show up 30 minutes early for the next three formations. If the Soldier is late again and the NCO recommends Article 15, the Soldier can successfully claim 'time served'?
I would recommend you seek a legal NCOs perspective on this situation.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Corrective action, if done properly is NOT punishment. It is teaching a Sailor of soldier the proper way to do things. If a Sailor cannot maintain his Uniform properly and you take away his Civilian Clothing Privileges, that IS Punishment. However, inspecting his entire Seabag and making sure that his locker is stowed properly daily is Corrective Action and is not punishment, especially if discrepancies are found.
After Mast (Article 15) we have sometimes removed Civilian Clothing privileges if a Sailor's uniforms and or lack of ability to care for his uniforms is a part of his problems. Yes THAT is punishment!
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SFC Robert Walton
SGM Matthew Quick - SSG(P) (Join to see) I see both sides here and the best way to solve it is the corrective action should justify the failure except in a situation like late for formation that is what I call think correction. Push ups behind formation is think correction I can use that and also set the individual down for counseling if this is recurring issue. I like the push-ups then see me after formation so i can do a verbal the first time, second time is push-ups and meet me in the orderly room every morning at this time 15 min. early until further notice and put it on paper. Provide a copy for the SM.
Third time Written counseling and forward all to the 1SGT. for non-judicial. JMTC
Third time Written counseling and forward all to the 1SGT. for non-judicial. JMTC
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