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Imagine that you are a Minuteman or Trident missileer (AF and Navy, respectively). You are fully aware that a few oz's of pressure with your finger WILL kill millions of people. Could you do it?
I know that most of us here are alphas, and our knee-jerk reaction is to say 'of course I could.' That's fine. That might also be accurate. But I'm asking you step back, put yourself in that position, and determine whether or not you ACTUALLY would do so if ordered.
I know that most of us here are alphas, and our knee-jerk reaction is to say 'of course I could.' That's fine. That might also be accurate. But I'm asking you step back, put yourself in that position, and determine whether or not you ACTUALLY would do so if ordered.
Nuclear
Duty
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 71
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PO2 Michael Dowell
You came on board as I left, 1979-1984. Was she always on fire or flooding like when I was on her? I hoped the overhaul in 1981-1982 would fix her but I had my doubts.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
She was soooooooo perfect when I was on board. Got a new skipper, new XO and they turned things around. Got a Battle E and a MUC. They fixed her so good, we were always getting extended to cover other boats! Were you Blue or Gold? Remember MT2 Keller?
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I feel it, like any other duty that calls for the possibility of taking lives, it comes down to the acceptance of that risk. You make a decision and accept the reality of your task, commit to training and conditioning to complete the task. This, as with any such task, the training and conditioning will take over and you completed the task.
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Pulling the nuclear trigger will not save US lives-only let the enemy know that they too will lose out in this war. The doctrine of MAD in action.
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The military is here to preserve democracy, not practice it. If the order came down to push the button and it was my job to push it, then yes. I'd push it three or four times just to make sure it took.
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SPC Tommy Dean
Sorry MSG Earley. Didn't read your post before I posted. Kind of mirrored your response.
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You as a United States military man do not have the option to make that decision you just follow orders. Commander in Chief gives the orders remember
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What's the difference between pushing a button to start a launch sequence and pulling a trigger to shoot an enemy combatant other than the number of dead and structural damage?
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SN Greg Wright
PO2 Robert Cuminale - I agree with your last sentence, but I have to think that it would matter to any moral human being whether or not their 'round' (whatever form it takes) is killing combatants or civilians. That isn't to say, in any way, that I think that means someone shouldn't launch. Indeed, they should, if properly ordered to. I'm merely speaking to the psychological effect on the person.
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
SN Greg Wright - Are you in the correct field of endeavor? The immorality is on the part of the enemy in locating military functions in the midst of the civilian population. One of the reasons for the choosing of Nagasaki as the second bombing site was Japan's location of Japan's First Army with tens of thousands of troopers awaiting a land attack by American forces. The fire bombing of Dresden was caused by Germany's co-location of armament production facilities there.
The suffering of the civilian population is a given since they either support their government's aggression or unwillingness to do anything about it. Contrast that with Germany's use of the V-2 Rockets aimed at London where there was only a civilian population and no production facilities. There is strategic value in creating civilian population suffering or prolonging it in order to enlist them to put pressure on their government to surrender and make them more malleable to an occupying force.
The only moral factor is in causing enough suffering to produce the result desired and not going beyond that point. Call it overkill.
If you've psychological problems with it then you're in the wrong field.
The suffering of the civilian population is a given since they either support their government's aggression or unwillingness to do anything about it. Contrast that with Germany's use of the V-2 Rockets aimed at London where there was only a civilian population and no production facilities. There is strategic value in creating civilian population suffering or prolonging it in order to enlist them to put pressure on their government to surrender and make them more malleable to an occupying force.
The only moral factor is in causing enough suffering to produce the result desired and not going beyond that point. Call it overkill.
If you've psychological problems with it then you're in the wrong field.
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PO2 Mark Evans
PO2 Robert Cuminale - It is a balancing act. A sailor that feels no angst is a sociopath and should and would be disqualified. On the other hand, you have to be ready and willing should the time come.
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
And who's to say what the person is feeling? Thousands of pilots bombed cities in WW2. Did anyone ask them how they felt? The pilot of the Enola Gay never claimed to have qualms about dropping the first atomic bomb and he claimed it didn't affect him. It's a job.
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If it was aimed at the middle East I would stand on that bitch, it saves mores lives than it takes
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I would definitely never be selected for that sort of duty, since I would never push the button. I joined up so I could protect and defend, not murder millions. I understand it's role as a deterrent, however if it fails to deter... what do we gain by killing millions more?
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CWO2 Richard Rose
SSG (Join to see) - you have to follow orders. You would most likely never be assigned any duty involving the subject here. Back in the mid eighties the movie, "The Day After" was loosely based on a first strike on us and our response.
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SSG (Join to see)
CWO2 Richard Rose - No one ever really has to do anything, I choose to follow orders, I would not choose to follow those orders.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
Its an interesting perspective for sure. My thoughts were that if I'm getting orders to launch, that meant that my wife and family were already dead. So for 99% of us, the answer was always "yes." We did have one patrol tho where one of the crew "didn't want to play" and asked to be relieved.
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SSG (Join to see)
PO3 Donald Murphy - I might be grieving because they were gone, however How woudl doing that to someone else help anything? Putting a round in an enemy tank or machine gunning enemy troops is one thing, wiping out city blocks of people just like my family is something else entirely.
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It's easy to be keyboard tough. But the thought of killing millions maybe billions. Man is Jesus writing you one hell of a counseling statement!!!!!:) But seriously no one will be around to convict you or face book shame you. Sauce for the goose.
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The only honest answer is I don't know. That goes for anyone regardless of what they say. Nuclear war is a death sentence for humanity and everyone knows it. The people who work in those missile silos have no clue about the circumstances leading to the launch. Are we conducting the first strike? Are were retaliating? Those are morally important things to know. Also, it is entirely possible that a mistake could have been made. I truly believe that the vast majority of people charged with maintaining MAD, would probably be unable to fulfill their mission. I also believe the same would apply to our enemies. So the answer is that nobody could know until the situation presented itself.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
Not really. Tests weed out the infirm. And unlike the movies, you truly don't know whats going on until the trigger is pulled. The message does not say "nuke the (fill in enemy of your choice)." The message has a series of codes. You verify that the message is real. If it is, you load the message. The message will then tell you (if you're a sub) how many missiles to ready. You ready them. Only when you pull the trigger do you know if it was a test or not. If the sub stays still it was a test. If the sub shudders and becomes 33000 pounds lighter, then it would have been real. But you don't know that until the trigger is pulled.
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SGT Tony Clifford
My point is exactly that. As a ground soldier I knew what was going on. I had orders, but I also had a degree of freedom to choose the best coarse of action because I was informed of my mission and the missions of the next 2 higher echelons. An op order tells soldiers the current situation and allows actions to be tailored to the situation as much as the mission. The missile operators don't get that. The merely receive a code that has preprogrammed orders. No situational awareness just orders.
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