Posted on Nov 7, 2014
Disrespected while correcting a Soldier, how would you handle this situation?
284K
1.74K
630
77
77
0
Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
Disrespect
Civilians
Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 380
0
0
0
Let's just say I think I would have a hard time fitting into today's, "enlightened, kinder and gentler," military.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
I would have told the civilian(former Military ) that he or she needed to excuse us and vacate the room until we were finished. If they had a prob take it up with s'body higher up the food chain. Hopefully it would take a while before they came back if they left. I Prob'ly wouldn't say it exactly that way but it might infer that's what was meant.
I've done counseling sessions and have been interrupted.. I would ask them nicely and if that didn't work .. had a time the Superintendent's administrative assistant who happened to be a Gs-6. Interrupted
And I asked her nicely to come back in about 15 minutes .. she acted as if I had no right to be counseling the Airman(i had his Sergeant present) . I'd informed him of options he had. If he wanted legal counsel we'd stop talking.. but I was hoping that it wouldn't have to come to that point. I wasn't accusing him of anything yet in that sitrep.. I wanted to know why he didn't take corrective action in a particular sitrep. He said it was 't his shift's project and didn't think he should meddle.. .. the assistant tried to interrupt once again and I said I thought I told you to come back in a while.. So she left in a huff... didn't come back either.. I think it was close to her shift ending time.. anyway we resolved the issue and it ended with a letter of counsel.. I hoped she didn't try to meddle in that.. I put a copy in the Supr's office drawer with a note for his eyes only.. he could make the determination later.. I just didn't want her sticking her busybody nose into it. She had a habit of trying to correct my Airmen as if she were an extension of the Superintendent.. a couple of them were outside the side door when they seen a couple of Female Airmen going by .. they hadn't said anything yet to the females and the admin. Assist thought it her place to tell my cooks to get back inside.. one of them informed her they were off shift and if She had a prob to see their immediate supervisor(me) . And they both walked off and went back to their barracks. She told the super and he told me she was filing a formal complaint that the Airmen told her off. after she ordered them back indoors.. The Super told her she had no supervisory powers over the Airmen, she was his admin assist and that was all.. she could follow the chain of Cmnd and it would be looked into but n'thing would Prob'ly come of it. She said they were ogling the female personnel. That was why she ordered them inside.. I said I'd have a chat with them.. she wanted to see them written up. .. I just smiled and and went back to work..
"why throw gas on a smouldering fire.. "
I talked to them and suggested they not make it look so obvious.. or I might have to get out the pen and harrasment papers and they don't want to go down that road.. it can get really ugly for them , especially with Mz nosybody.. at the hearing.. a few weeks later Mz Nosybody who also had nice feminine features was in town and s'body in a car wolf-whistled at her, lucky for them the car behind them was too close so she couldn't see the plate.. She said she thought she recognized one of the people but wasn't sure.. She wanted them two brought in and questioned.. I told her go
To the Desk Sgt. Downtown Hampton and maybe he can help her but it was doubtful.. She could see she wasn't getting any cooperation .. She went to the Squadron Cmdr.. he said he'd bring it up at Cmdr's call next week.. .. I think he posted a letter on the bulletin boards for everybody to read and be aware of..
it happened a couple more times.. still she couldn't get a plate number... it had a smokey cover over the plate.. she drove
around base looking for that car, couldn't find it.. Have you tried Norfolk or Fort Monroe or Fort Eustis.. we asked her.. the woman was fit to be tied .. she got worn down by it.. she finally took a week off of work.. we talked to the guys.. and told them to lay off whistling at her.. turned out it wasn't them .. they were at work while she was off and s'body whistled at her again. My Airmen were at work making that day's lunch.. even the Superintendent seen them working..
What happened after I don't know, I was gone by then..
I've done counseling sessions and have been interrupted.. I would ask them nicely and if that didn't work .. had a time the Superintendent's administrative assistant who happened to be a Gs-6. Interrupted
And I asked her nicely to come back in about 15 minutes .. she acted as if I had no right to be counseling the Airman(i had his Sergeant present) . I'd informed him of options he had. If he wanted legal counsel we'd stop talking.. but I was hoping that it wouldn't have to come to that point. I wasn't accusing him of anything yet in that sitrep.. I wanted to know why he didn't take corrective action in a particular sitrep. He said it was 't his shift's project and didn't think he should meddle.. .. the assistant tried to interrupt once again and I said I thought I told you to come back in a while.. So she left in a huff... didn't come back either.. I think it was close to her shift ending time.. anyway we resolved the issue and it ended with a letter of counsel.. I hoped she didn't try to meddle in that.. I put a copy in the Supr's office drawer with a note for his eyes only.. he could make the determination later.. I just didn't want her sticking her busybody nose into it. She had a habit of trying to correct my Airmen as if she were an extension of the Superintendent.. a couple of them were outside the side door when they seen a couple of Female Airmen going by .. they hadn't said anything yet to the females and the admin. Assist thought it her place to tell my cooks to get back inside.. one of them informed her they were off shift and if She had a prob to see their immediate supervisor(me) . And they both walked off and went back to their barracks. She told the super and he told me she was filing a formal complaint that the Airmen told her off. after she ordered them back indoors.. The Super told her she had no supervisory powers over the Airmen, she was his admin assist and that was all.. she could follow the chain of Cmnd and it would be looked into but n'thing would Prob'ly come of it. She said they were ogling the female personnel. That was why she ordered them inside.. I said I'd have a chat with them.. she wanted to see them written up. .. I just smiled and and went back to work..
"why throw gas on a smouldering fire.. "
I talked to them and suggested they not make it look so obvious.. or I might have to get out the pen and harrasment papers and they don't want to go down that road.. it can get really ugly for them , especially with Mz nosybody.. at the hearing.. a few weeks later Mz Nosybody who also had nice feminine features was in town and s'body in a car wolf-whistled at her, lucky for them the car behind them was too close so she couldn't see the plate.. She said she thought she recognized one of the people but wasn't sure.. She wanted them two brought in and questioned.. I told her go
To the Desk Sgt. Downtown Hampton and maybe he can help her but it was doubtful.. She could see she wasn't getting any cooperation .. She went to the Squadron Cmdr.. he said he'd bring it up at Cmdr's call next week.. .. I think he posted a letter on the bulletin boards for everybody to read and be aware of..
it happened a couple more times.. still she couldn't get a plate number... it had a smokey cover over the plate.. she drove
around base looking for that car, couldn't find it.. Have you tried Norfolk or Fort Monroe or Fort Eustis.. we asked her.. the woman was fit to be tied .. she got worn down by it.. she finally took a week off of work.. we talked to the guys.. and told them to lay off whistling at her.. turned out it wasn't them .. they were at work while she was off and s'body whistled at her again. My Airmen were at work making that day's lunch.. even the Superintendent seen them working..
What happened after I don't know, I was gone by then..
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
It was a good response, my problem is what the hell did the command/CO do to make a guy act that way. I would assume that something past the NJP level that the soldier royally screwed up and had his ass in a sling already, so what pissed him off to the point he felt ballsy enough to completely fuck up the uniform and in addition give you the middle finger?
(0)
(0)
CN Ryan Bird
What people fail to realize is this situation involves more than the folks who are directly involved. Someone has given that soldier the "oh yeah man, this command is fucked up, fight em" speech. And probably more than one person, maybe even members in your peer group. Im not redirecting accusations, this dude may have screwed the pooch, but as an NCO the best place for you to look is probably to quote the departed "up your own ass".
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
I agree with those who have recommended calling the MPs. The perpetrator of this sort of behavior is assuming that you really can't do anything to him, at least until you have "accumulated enough paper" or consulted with someone else. The snap of handcuffs on his wrists will change that perception. This sort of breach of discipline has to be handled swiftly and decisively. Anything else is permission to continue.
The charge of disobeying a lawful order, among others, would seem to be open-and-shut for at least an Article 15. Here's where you will find out what kind of support you will get from your chain of command. Far too many commanders are unwilling to punish one miscreant, but are more than willing to punish the rest of us by allowing him to poison the morale and discipline of the unit.
As to the civilian, I would make a formal complaint to her superior. Hopefully, your chain of command would second the complaint. After she goes through the process triggered by that, she would be unlikely to ever interfere again.
The charge of disobeying a lawful order, among others, would seem to be open-and-shut for at least an Article 15. Here's where you will find out what kind of support you will get from your chain of command. Far too many commanders are unwilling to punish one miscreant, but are more than willing to punish the rest of us by allowing him to poison the morale and discipline of the unit.
As to the civilian, I would make a formal complaint to her superior. Hopefully, your chain of command would second the complaint. After she goes through the process triggered by that, she would be unlikely to ever interfere again.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
I'd have let the courts marshel go on as planned and let the judge do his/her job and Start leading solders that want to be in. Those who want out get all the help I can provide. Quit wasting valuable time on lost causes and train/lead soldiers.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Kid has already hanged himself so to speak. The actions should be heavily noted in closing arguments. All the could have, would have and should have can be carried out by the jduge at sentencing.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
If it's "his" court martial I'm sure showing up in the wrong uniform is going to be the least of his worries especially if it comes down to a dishonorable discharge or hard labor-its frustrating but not worth getting pissed off about-let the courts decide his fate-thats why they are in place.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Well if it's that soldier's court martial, then I think the matter is probably going to sort itself out when the judge sees them in the wrong uniform. If it's not that soldier's court martial and they are a witness or something of that nature then their failure to follow a lawful order should be reported to their chain of command.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
I got out in 86...went back in in 89 as a 1st...in NavVet school i had an e2 tell me to eff off. I was floored. I took her in to the Lt's office and all he said to her was, "you shouldn't talk like that" Really? We had an e2 as our Asst company commander and she struck the fear of God in all of us
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google