Posted on Nov 7, 2014
Disrespected while correcting a Soldier, how would you handle this situation?
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Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
Disrespect
Civilians
Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 380
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This sounds like the result of multiple things that were occurring onsite, and have been systemic in the military in recent years. Many things are promoting a loss of respect for rank, including the lack of support by the chain of command, the too rapid promotions that outrun the maturity level of many of those promoted and the social engineering that is filtering its way into the military. Still, one must rise to the rank that is worn, and for a subordinate to act in this way, and not be handcuffed and taken back to the brig/stockade for disciplinary punishment, postponing the Court Martial and adding additional charges to be presented is unconscionable. Oh, this was posted three years ago, and the individuals involved have either learned better, or are civilians now (hopefully).
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Why was a civilian allowed to move freely through a court martial?
I really don't know the history of this incident, but the inability to make eye contact and hands in the pocket sounds like a flight response or whatever psychologists call it.
Did the soldier have the correct uniform and refused to wear it or were they wearing the only uniform they could? Was the uniform issue the first issue the soldier had or were there more like drunk on duty or constant tardiness?
I guess I would have to know the whole story to know how to proceed, but I still want to know why a civilian was allowed to disrupt a court martial.
I really don't know the history of this incident, but the inability to make eye contact and hands in the pocket sounds like a flight response or whatever psychologists call it.
Did the soldier have the correct uniform and refused to wear it or were they wearing the only uniform they could? Was the uniform issue the first issue the soldier had or were there more like drunk on duty or constant tardiness?
I guess I would have to know the whole story to know how to proceed, but I still want to know why a civilian was allowed to disrupt a court martial.
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A couple of things need clarification to get a better picture of the situation.
1) Is this soldier that you were at the CM with in your unit chain of command?
2) What purpose or reason did this soldier have for being at the CM if it was not his own?
Firstly, you handled the situation poorly. Pulling him to the side and locking him up into parade rest was a start. At the point where he ignored you, stuffed his hands into his pockets and stared at or past your paralegal and you could not regain control of the situation you should have left him with your Para and sought higher command. It was clear he was not going to show you any respect and that nothing you could or would do would regain that. Losing your cool and walking off to a room means you lost respect as you could not maintain the composure for your rank. Being as it was a CM there were bound to be numerous MP's around and one of them could have easily taken command of the soldier for a period of time.
As to the civilian who was former military. That is just one of those things you simply have to eat and move on from. You could tell her to suck it up and move on but that would get you into hot water especially if there was a complaint logged.
1) Is this soldier that you were at the CM with in your unit chain of command?
2) What purpose or reason did this soldier have for being at the CM if it was not his own?
Firstly, you handled the situation poorly. Pulling him to the side and locking him up into parade rest was a start. At the point where he ignored you, stuffed his hands into his pockets and stared at or past your paralegal and you could not regain control of the situation you should have left him with your Para and sought higher command. It was clear he was not going to show you any respect and that nothing you could or would do would regain that. Losing your cool and walking off to a room means you lost respect as you could not maintain the composure for your rank. Being as it was a CM there were bound to be numerous MP's around and one of them could have easily taken command of the soldier for a period of time.
As to the civilian who was former military. That is just one of those things you simply have to eat and move on from. You could tell her to suck it up and move on but that would get you into hot water especially if there was a complaint logged.
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SSG McLamb, not much else you could have done. There's a time and place for everything and chewing out the accused at his court-martial is not one of them. At this point, it's going to be the Trial Counsel's job to try and explain to the MJ why he/she isn't in the correct uniform. Depending on what the accused is being prosecuted for, depends on whether or not you should write up a statement on the situation. I have to admit that I would be pretty damn pissed myself, if that happened to me. Kudos for not making a scene...very professional of you.
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It seems to me that in a court, civilian or military, the Judge and staff, --- certainly including security personnel, have the authority? I've seen this before in a civil court when a defendant appeared in court wearing a tank top, dirty short pants and sandals. The judge handled the dress code violation in a most pointed and firm manner! Would this fall under "inappropriate conduct" in a court of law?
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I would have contacted the SM's 1SG and insist the SM be placed on arrest and restricted to QTRs until the NJP paperwork could be completed. Then for the punishment for the NJP I would have insisted that the SM lose half a month's base pay along with 15 days extra duty. The charge for the NJP would be Insubordination and the specification would have been exactly what took place. As far as what the civilian said it would have been "in one ear and out the other!" but if a response was needed it would have been to inform the civilian to mind their own business because this is a military matter.
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I had a situation somewhat like this and I used my Chain of Command to contact the Soldiers Chain of Command to implement corrective action. Then I received an updated a few days later on what was done to ensure this wouldn’t happen in the future.
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Captain, did you never watch the opening scenes of Full Metal Jacket? Didn't you have a legal office NCOIC? Did his First Sergeant not have a phone?
Duting RVN War, I came on active duty as a JAG Captain (with 25 years of experience as a servicr Brat <snicker> ). On Day 1, I got "lip" from an E6 in my office. Between my orders and the NCOIC's implemention we burned respect and obedience back into his soul (hastened his retirement too as it turned out).
You are an officer, you have power, you can do it!
Duting RVN War, I came on active duty as a JAG Captain (with 25 years of experience as a servicr Brat <snicker> ). On Day 1, I got "lip" from an E6 in my office. Between my orders and the NCOIC's implemention we burned respect and obedience back into his soul (hastened his retirement too as it turned out).
You are an officer, you have power, you can do it!
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