Posted on Nov 7, 2014
Disrespected while correcting a Soldier, how would you handle this situation?
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Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
Disrespect
Civilians
Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 380
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Were you yelling ? , of so why ? I would think yelling would be counterproductive. The former military turned civilian had a point only if the Captains voice was causing a scene , if the civilian was becoming part of the problem then he needs to be informed to stop interfering and move on!
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Sounds like the soldier was looking for a reaction for all to see. I see that attitude a lot when police officers confront idiots...just goading them to react and maybe get a cell phone video out of it that would possibly make it to Youtube.
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Each individual handles situations differently, which doesn't necessarily make one wrong or the other right. Ultimately it's learning about what works for you. Given what detail you've provided I assume you're in a 'office' type environment, in the immediate vicinity to where the court-martial proceeding will occur - possibly meaning that adequate time to correct the uniform violation does not exist; why this soldier is at the c-m is not apparent but that really doesn't matter. If time to correct the uniform does not exist, asking 'why' they are in the incorrect uniform and attempting to follow that line has a null result, as you found, it only angers you and allows the soldier to feel that they achieved some small victory.
I likely would have acknowledged the soldiers incorrect uniform and let them know that their action will have negative repercussions ("You were instructed to be in ASU's, we will talk about this later"); maintaining your sanity, not provoking the civilian to comment, and not letting the soldier take the attitude that they did. The Judge could have been informed, by the Paralegal, of the uniform discrepancy and made any adjustment they determined necessary, if at all. Later you could have counseled the soldier and if appropriate recommended further action, or determined some remedial training to correct the deficiency which appears to be failure to follow instructions to wit: inability to show at a predetermined time and place in the proper uniform. Using your counseling form to establish the plan of action (ie: directed to appear at X time/place in Y uniform; 3 different times/ uniforms because repetition is known to improve proper performance), and to follow-up on satisfactory/unsat performance of the remedial training/plan of action.
That is just one alternative; what's really important is that you learned something coming out of it and that you sought advice on how to deal with future issues while seeking a different outcome.
I likely would have acknowledged the soldiers incorrect uniform and let them know that their action will have negative repercussions ("You were instructed to be in ASU's, we will talk about this later"); maintaining your sanity, not provoking the civilian to comment, and not letting the soldier take the attitude that they did. The Judge could have been informed, by the Paralegal, of the uniform discrepancy and made any adjustment they determined necessary, if at all. Later you could have counseled the soldier and if appropriate recommended further action, or determined some remedial training to correct the deficiency which appears to be failure to follow instructions to wit: inability to show at a predetermined time and place in the proper uniform. Using your counseling form to establish the plan of action (ie: directed to appear at X time/place in Y uniform; 3 different times/ uniforms because repetition is known to improve proper performance), and to follow-up on satisfactory/unsat performance of the remedial training/plan of action.
That is just one alternative; what's really important is that you learned something coming out of it and that you sought advice on how to deal with future issues while seeking a different outcome.
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Evaluate the situation. You're at a court martial. You're not out in the field. Speak in a moderate and determined voice. Yelling at the soldier, if that's what you did, was inappropriate here. You don't need to feel disrespected. I think you were overcome with "Are you freaking kidding me? ACUs? What is your major malfunction Pyle?" Good on ya for leaving the scene to "cool off."
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First mistake was walking away to cool off. He basically got away with it, so his disrespect was just given positive affirmation. Never give in Capt. if it means more punishment and added charges then so be it. Shitbirds today know that people would rather not do the paperwork.
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Informing the civilian politely that the matter is in referance to a MILITARY Courts Martial and she has no Jurisidiction, and to the Soldier ( especially is I were the JAG Representing him as it sounds like you were in this case) I would remind him that his Refusal to answer is only compounding a situation that he is already in.
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Back in my day he would have made a trip out behind a building and not been at a court martial for a minor infraction and if it was serious enough to warrant a courts martial he would have already had the fear of God put in him
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CWO3 (Join to see)
Red Line Brig in your days. With breaks outside making little rocks out of big ones. You could even send a problem child to Correctional Custody Platoon (CCP) with the right paperwork for CYA. Was not uncommon for some CO's to hold NJP on file until aboard ship so the turd could get bread and water. The good ole days. Was much easier to instill discipline: "willing obedience to orders without hesitation". That's why I am not crazy about a draft, because leaders will be overwhelmed with what used to be the 10%. Some call them Gen X - I say Gen Y because everything is followed with why? I got out in 98 and things were not as bad as the way I'm reading they are now. We still had our knuckleheads but the Command was supportive with handling them. You really had to document though.
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After continued disobedience I would have summoned an MP. That way the charges would be noted by law enforcement. The Soldier would have been apprehended and titled and his COC would deal with him then. Then, I would have a word with the Civilain and her supervisor, discussing the reason that she was employed by the Army in the first place.
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Punched the civilian in the face and the soldier too. Neither one of them would have done sh-t with their bitch asses. Some Article 15's need to be earned and that would have been just the day to earn one. Just my 2¢.
Current SFC
Current SFC
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I was ib the Army from 1966 -1969. Honestly, I never saw any disrespect like that. Respect was drilled into us from day one, in a way that you never forgot.
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