Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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Is this personal swearing-in the midshipmen candidate’s official Oath of Office? No, the personal swearing-in is ceremonial only. The personal swearing-in is a favorite custom that the Naval Academy utilizes in order to allow midshipmen candidates to share the experience with their family and friends. The midshipmen candidates will sign their official Oath of Office with a commissioned officer earlier in the day and they will take their Oath of Office with the Commandant of Midshipmen during the Oath of Office ceremony in Tecumseh Court at 6 p.m..
I (name), having been appointed an Air Force cadet in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office of which I am about to enter. So Help Me God.
If the cadet has not taken the military office of office how can they be in the chain of command? As in NCO me oath call me to obey command of those "appointed" over me.
I (name), having been appointed an Air Force cadet in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office of which I am about to enter. So Help Me God.
If the cadet has not taken the military office of office how can they be in the chain of command? As in NCO me oath call me to obey command of those "appointed" over me.
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LTC (Join to see)
The Cadet/Midshipman oath is prescribed in law and more closely resembles the
enlistment oath. The one you cited is for commissioning and civil service appointment.
Here's the information on cadets:
10 U.S. Code § 4346 - Cadets: requirements for admission
(d) To be admitted to the Academy, an appointee must take and subscribe to the following oath—
“I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and bear true allegiance to the National Government; that I will maintain and defend the sovereignty of the United States, paramount to any and all allegiance, sovereignty, or fealty I may owe to any State or country whatsoever; and that I will at all times obey the legal orders of my superior officers, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”
If a candidate for admission refuses to take this oath, his appointment is terminated.
enlistment oath. The one you cited is for commissioning and civil service appointment.
Here's the information on cadets:
10 U.S. Code § 4346 - Cadets: requirements for admission
(d) To be admitted to the Academy, an appointee must take and subscribe to the following oath—
“I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and bear true allegiance to the National Government; that I will maintain and defend the sovereignty of the United States, paramount to any and all allegiance, sovereignty, or fealty I may owe to any State or country whatsoever; and that I will at all times obey the legal orders of my superior officers, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”
If a candidate for admission refuses to take this oath, his appointment is terminated.
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Is a cadet an officer before he graduates? I think not, in my reading cadet graduates then congress approves all officer ranks. Till then your just a monkey. Could be wrong but please cite the regs/law.
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LTC (Join to see)
Cadets at the Academy shall be appointed by the President alone. An appointment is conditional until the cadet is admitted. (Pub. L. 97–60, title II, § 203(a)(2)(A), Oct. 14, 1981, 95 Stat. 1006.)
38 U.S. Code § 1965:
(1) The term “active duty” means –
(A) full-time duty in the Armed Forces, other than active duty for training;
(B) full-time duty (other than for training purposes) as a commissioned officer of the
Regular or Reserve Corps of the Public Health Service;
(C) full-time duty as a commissioned officer of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration; and
(D) full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy,
United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States
Coast Guard Academy.
Also 38 U.S. Code § 1965:
Active Duty For Training (ADT) includes "...full-time duty as a member, cadet, or
midshipman of the Reserve Officers Training Corps while attending field training or practice cruises...."
As members of the Regular Army on active duty drawing pay and (when TDY away from the Academy) Allowances, United States Military Academy cadets are ADT. My cadet time was Active Federal Service and is reflected on my DD214.
At West Point, cadets are commissioned before graduation. It's only a few hours before graduation and it's because commissioning it's a legal process that takes more time than is feasible during the graduation ceremony. Similar to an enlistment, commissioning and cadet appointments require documentation to accompany the verbal oath. Both must be signed and administered by an authorized federal official. This includes retired officers since retired military personnel remain in their service but on the retired register. On our first day, our Tactical Officers administered the official oath and signed the same document that we signed. An hour or so later in formation at Trophy Point, we took a ceremonial the oath where all the pictures are taken. Similarly, the oath taken during graduation is the one that is just ceremonial and redundant to our actual commissioning.
Yesterday was the 42nd anniversary of our graduation. With our families, we reported to our designated company locations to be commissioned one at a time in these smaller groups. In my company, one classmate was commissioned by his grandfather who wore his WW II khaki uniform. Another was by his active duty older sister. My father , a retired Air Force Reserve officer commissioned me. Dad flew C-47s in the China - Burma - India Theater, stayed in the reserves and transitioned to the Air Force when it was established.
By tradition, a newly-commissioned 2LT gives a silver dollar to the 1st Enlisted Soldier rendering a salute. We were returning to the barracks to prepare for graduation just after
commissioning when my dollar went to MSG Matthews, one of Tactical Department mentors.
On your second premise, promotions to Regular Army Major and above require Senate
confirmation. (The lack of the confirmation requirement for reserve officers was pretty-
much obviated in the 1980s when DOPMA began the transition to an all-regular force
upon promotion to Major.) For promotions below Lieutenant General, it's rare to see
anything other than Senate confirmation by unanimous consent of the promotion
nominations submitted by the President. The most prominent exception to this practice
was when the Senate required supplemental information on any officer associated with
the Navy's Tailhook scandal.
38 U.S. Code § 1965:
(1) The term “active duty” means –
(A) full-time duty in the Armed Forces, other than active duty for training;
(B) full-time duty (other than for training purposes) as a commissioned officer of the
Regular or Reserve Corps of the Public Health Service;
(C) full-time duty as a commissioned officer of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration; and
(D) full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy,
United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States
Coast Guard Academy.
Also 38 U.S. Code § 1965:
Active Duty For Training (ADT) includes "...full-time duty as a member, cadet, or
midshipman of the Reserve Officers Training Corps while attending field training or practice cruises...."
As members of the Regular Army on active duty drawing pay and (when TDY away from the Academy) Allowances, United States Military Academy cadets are ADT. My cadet time was Active Federal Service and is reflected on my DD214.
At West Point, cadets are commissioned before graduation. It's only a few hours before graduation and it's because commissioning it's a legal process that takes more time than is feasible during the graduation ceremony. Similar to an enlistment, commissioning and cadet appointments require documentation to accompany the verbal oath. Both must be signed and administered by an authorized federal official. This includes retired officers since retired military personnel remain in their service but on the retired register. On our first day, our Tactical Officers administered the official oath and signed the same document that we signed. An hour or so later in formation at Trophy Point, we took a ceremonial the oath where all the pictures are taken. Similarly, the oath taken during graduation is the one that is just ceremonial and redundant to our actual commissioning.
Yesterday was the 42nd anniversary of our graduation. With our families, we reported to our designated company locations to be commissioned one at a time in these smaller groups. In my company, one classmate was commissioned by his grandfather who wore his WW II khaki uniform. Another was by his active duty older sister. My father , a retired Air Force Reserve officer commissioned me. Dad flew C-47s in the China - Burma - India Theater, stayed in the reserves and transitioned to the Air Force when it was established.
By tradition, a newly-commissioned 2LT gives a silver dollar to the 1st Enlisted Soldier rendering a salute. We were returning to the barracks to prepare for graduation just after
commissioning when my dollar went to MSG Matthews, one of Tactical Department mentors.
On your second premise, promotions to Regular Army Major and above require Senate
confirmation. (The lack of the confirmation requirement for reserve officers was pretty-
much obviated in the 1980s when DOPMA began the transition to an all-regular force
upon promotion to Major.) For promotions below Lieutenant General, it's rare to see
anything other than Senate confirmation by unanimous consent of the promotion
nominations submitted by the President. The most prominent exception to this practice
was when the Senate required supplemental information on any officer associated with
the Navy's Tailhook scandal.
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Pvt Michael Todd
"Congress creates the office to which the President nominates an officer. Once the Congress approves the appointment, the President grants the officer the commission."
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017/october/know-what-officer-commission-means
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017/october/know-what-officer-commission-means
Know What An Officer Commission Means
Ask any officer why he or she is commissioned into service, and why enlisted personnel are contracted into service. Pay close attention to the answer; often it will be incomplete.
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Pvt Michael Todd
I see where congress has given up it's authority by statute of appointing minor officers to just the executive branch. Never knew that till now, I stand corrected.
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Cadets are just that cadets and outrank no one. Let them do their job and call them cadets. Good day cadet.
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Tomorrow will be the 2nd anniversary of the day my dear friend & best NCO I’ve ever known died. I was a 1st LT, & was older because I’d been out of the Army for 12 yrs. He & the other senior SF NCO’s in our local USAR center dedicated a great deal of time & effort in teaching us soldier tasks, & leading by example in how to take care of troops. He & the other NCO’s made us far better soldiers & better human beings as well. I miss him every day.
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You owe this jerk a salute. Back in WWII, while stationed in England, soldiers often encountered butterbar toddlers who made an issue of this in town. The men got even by tag-teaming and dogging the lieutenant and saluting him every block or so, spread out so that the nimrod had to render dozens, if not hundreds, of salutes. It broke them of silly expectations.
Still, soldier, you owe the cadet a salute. This can be a teaching opportunity. So be a nice noncom, give him his salute, and then teach him. That's what NCOs are supposed to do to lieutenants, no?
Still, soldier, you owe the cadet a salute. This can be a teaching opportunity. So be a nice noncom, give him his salute, and then teach him. That's what NCOs are supposed to do to lieutenants, no?
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West Point cadets do technically since they take an oath of office upon entering. However, any cadet that insists that they outrank an NCO and treat them as such, is really out on a limb. I doubt that an officer that received a report of a cadet trying to tell an NCO what to do and the NCO telling the cadet to take a flying leap would do anything except tell the cadet to go away. Any cadet that does this probably is not an officer that you want to serve under, the ego is too massive.
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You know, I once had a cadet walk past me when I had an arm load of things and made a snide comment to me; "Where's my salute Specialist Hunsinger?" To which I replied, "Where is your commission cadet? And while we're here, I did basic training just like everyone else and at no time did they teach me a rank insignia of that black bingo chip on your hat." This went all the way up to my 1SG who sided with me on it and told the cadet I might salute him when he does something worth while like receiving his commission. This was back in 1991 or so but ROTC cadets have no rank as they are not an actual member of the Army yet. Now things may have changed since my days and maybe they are different for different services.
That being said, we were asked to treat the cadets as if they were officers BUT this particular cadet had some real issues and as such we soldiers made his time with us a living hell. We had two other cadets that were great people and I extended those courtesies to them with no problem. Many other times during my career I worked with cadets that I had no problems with. Just that cadet was a real d-bag.
This cadet also made a grave error with my father. I am a Jr. My CW3 father and I were both active duty at the same time. He used to call me in our platoon office once in a while just to say hello and catch up with me when we could. My command was ok with this so no big deal. Said cadet was in the office this day and I just happened to be at the motor pool when my father called. My father started to say; "Hello, this is CW3 Hunsinger could I"...Cadet cut him off and told him impersonating an officer was serious (Thinking it was me apparently) and hung up on him. My father called back and again identified himself at which time the cadet started yelling at him for impersonating an officer. At this point my father decided he had had enough of the cadet and read him the riot act about proper phone etiquette and that he was CW3 Hunsinger and would like to speak with Specialist Hunsinger. The company gave him grief about that for the rest of his time there as well.
I forget his name but I hope he learned some things about how to treat your soldiers as an officer before he became commissioned. I know his fellow cadets didn't like him at all. Maybe his instructors ran him out and did the Army a favor.
I had always been told they had no real military rank but maybe I'm mistaken or just outdated.
That being said, we were asked to treat the cadets as if they were officers BUT this particular cadet had some real issues and as such we soldiers made his time with us a living hell. We had two other cadets that were great people and I extended those courtesies to them with no problem. Many other times during my career I worked with cadets that I had no problems with. Just that cadet was a real d-bag.
This cadet also made a grave error with my father. I am a Jr. My CW3 father and I were both active duty at the same time. He used to call me in our platoon office once in a while just to say hello and catch up with me when we could. My command was ok with this so no big deal. Said cadet was in the office this day and I just happened to be at the motor pool when my father called. My father started to say; "Hello, this is CW3 Hunsinger could I"...Cadet cut him off and told him impersonating an officer was serious (Thinking it was me apparently) and hung up on him. My father called back and again identified himself at which time the cadet started yelling at him for impersonating an officer. At this point my father decided he had had enough of the cadet and read him the riot act about proper phone etiquette and that he was CW3 Hunsinger and would like to speak with Specialist Hunsinger. The company gave him grief about that for the rest of his time there as well.
I forget his name but I hope he learned some things about how to treat your soldiers as an officer before he became commissioned. I know his fellow cadets didn't like him at all. Maybe his instructors ran him out and did the Army a favor.
I had always been told they had no real military rank but maybe I'm mistaken or just outdated.
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When I was Army ROTC before USAF OTS, and even while I was USAF OTS, also, when I was active USAF, I knew NEVER to do that, NEVER, EVER...the Army ROTC unit I was in, which no longer exists, had a really senior MSgt, as well as an incredibly senior CSM...if I'd have even THOUGHT of thinking such a thing with them, I'd have been "mentally disemboweled", I knew quite well...when I was done at USAF OTS, and had gone over from the Medina Annex to the main side of Lackland to get the travel pay we were all told to pick up, I happened to pass a "seriously" senior CMSgt with "equally serious" whitewalls, who quite obviously realized I was a brand-new newbie OTS grad; he very graciously whipped one out with a "Morning, Lt, congrats", to which I equally courteously whipped one back, "Morning, Chief, many thanks"...that was one of those REALLY good days, I can assure all of you...
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