Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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LTC Stephen F.
Actually SFC Robert Falco
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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PO1 Tom Follis
“Cadets are birds without wings” is not my comment. Some asshat must’ve hacked my acct. I was USN and never dealt with cadets. We had midshipmen and I rarely dealt with them. Also, I retired 26 years ago. Thinks we’re sooooooo much better back then.
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I thought until commissioned they don't hold any power to warrant much beyond a salute if on academy territory. Cadets are conditionally respected in my experience. IE you may have to salute them on the street in Annapolis but they don't hold power in a workspace.
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
Yes, Sergeant, Actually That West Point Cadet Does Outrank You - Modern War Institute
Scott Faith argues that contrary to popular belief West Point and ROTC cadets outrank NCO's according to Army Command Policy.
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
Sir, West Point cadets seem to have an exception. They are ranked below commissioned officers and warrants, but above enlisted members and yes, all enlisted members have to salute at least West Point cadets. (I was an ROTC cadet for a semester, as a prior service enlisted member.) I hope this is helpful.
AR 600-20, Section 2:
2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander
a. Commander of Army element.
(1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command.
(2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander.
(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander “during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander” if the announcement gives the time element involved. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period.
AR 600-20, Section 2:
2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander
a. Commander of Army element.
(1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command.
(2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander.
(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander “during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander” if the announcement gives the time element involved. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period.
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
Please also add ROTC cadets into the discussion above, as they too are covered by AR 600-20
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LTC Stephen F.
Per AR 600-20 LTC (Join to see)
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC
Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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No, They have not yet received their Commission. They are nothing more rhan a recruit with a college degree. They don't out rank anyone other than lower class members
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
Hi, SSgt Johnson. Please refer to AR 600-20 for the correct answer. Cadets are ranked below commissioned and warrant officers, while they outrank all NCO's. They also have to be saluted and as for the degree thing, they are typically in the process of obtaining their degrees, while they are serving as cadets.
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/
Yes, Sergeant, Actually That West Point Cadet Does Outrank You - Modern War Institute
Scott Faith argues that contrary to popular belief West Point and ROTC cadets outrank NCO's according to Army Command Policy.
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When I was in Drill Sergeant school I went as an E6 and got promoted to E7 while I was there. Yes I out ranked a lot of the instructors but that doesn't matter. You're there for the school and the instructors are there to teach you. If you knew better that them then you would be teaching the class. And if you are as good as or better than them, apply to be an instructor. A fellow Drill Sargeant and myself had a 2LT in the front leaning rest one day because he was coming from the swiming pool in our training area not wearing a shirt. A cardinal sin. He was at Ft Sam for OBC. After we were done with him is when he told us he was an officer. We just explained the rules, dismissed him and moved out smartly.
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During my time as a cadet at USAFA, I participated in a program called 3rd Lieutenant. I went to serve in several enlisted positions and learned that I didn’t know much about the running of the Air Force. I the appreciated better the information value that NCOs had. I passed that lesson on to my son during his ROTC studies.
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Cadets are only the equivalent to an E-5 in Pay, but actually have no authority over NCO’s as they are still in their training phase!
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
Correction: (Please see AR 600-20
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/
Yes, Sergeant, Actually That West Point Cadet Does Outrank You - Modern War Institute
Scott Faith argues that contrary to popular belief West Point and ROTC cadets outrank NCO's according to Army Command Policy.
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I was sitting at ramstein Afb with my girlfriend who wanted to visit Paris. I had a rental car and most our time was to be spent in the Netherlands. I had booked 4 star hotels with the option to cancel. As a cw4 I was given a suite for the weekend. It was the 4th of July
I could not buy anything rationed but could get beer and one once little bottles or just walk to the nearest German guest house. New butter bars are arriving for their assignments in Germany. Happy. Until I ask one are you infantry? Yes he says. Well you know once you make first LT you are on your way to afganistan. He stops smiling. I get up and say do not piss off your quartermaster.
I could not buy anything rationed but could get beer and one once little bottles or just walk to the nearest German guest house. New butter bars are arriving for their assignments in Germany. Happy. Until I ask one are you infantry? Yes he says. Well you know once you make first LT you are on your way to afganistan. He stops smiling. I get up and say do not piss off your quartermaster.
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Technically? Yes. In real life? Not one their best day. All Cadet's and most LT's will do well to head the advice of... Two eyes, two ears and one mouth... Look and listen twice as much as you talk.
And never... NEVER, question someone who has more time using a slit trench than you have in the military.
And never... NEVER, question someone who has more time using a slit trench than you have in the military.
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